Colin MacKnight
Music Director, Trinity Episcopal Cathedral
Born in Maryland, Colin MacKnight is an organist who has been described as "a stunning player of exceptional ability" by composer/conductor Bob Chilcott. A skilled composer and conductor in his own right, Colin learned his trade at The Juilliard School in New York, receiving a bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degree and writing a prize-winning dissertation on Johann Sebastian Bach's "Art of Fugue".
With numerous accolades under his belt, Colin moved to Arkansas after landing a job at Little Rock's Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, where he is now the Director of Music. At Trinity, Colin oversees choral scholar programs, a concert series, and more. Additionally, Colin founded and directs The Trinitas Ensemble, Little Rock's only fully professional concert choir.
Listen to Learn:
- About Colin's life as a musician
- His work at the Trinity Epsicopal Cathedral in Little Rock
- Colin's training to perform the complete organ works of Bach, and more...
Podcast Links
TRANSCRIPT
EPISODE 418
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:00] GM: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. Through storytelling, conversational interviews, and Kerry's natural curiosity, this weekly radio show and podcast offers listeners an insider's view into the commonalities of entrepreneurs, professionals, politicians, athletes, and other successful people. All sharing their stories of success and the ups and downs of risk-taking. Connect with Kerry through her candid, funny, informative, and always-encouraging weekly blog. And now it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:34] KM: Thank you, Son Gray. This show began in 2016 as a way for me and other successful people to pay forward our experiential knowledge in a conversational way. But it wasn't long before my team and I realized that we were the ones learning. Listening to our guest has been both educational and inspiring. To quote the Dalai Lama, "When you talk, you're only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new."
Before I introduce today's guest, I want to let you know, if you miss any part of today's show, want to hear it again or share it, there's a way. And Son Gray will tell you how.
[00:01:09] GM: All UIYB past and present interviews are available at Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy's YouTube channel, Facebook page, the Arkansas Democrat Gazette's digital version, flagandbanner.com's website, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just ask your smart speaker to play Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. And by subscribing to our YouTube channel or flagandbanner.com's email list, you will receive prior notification of that day's guest. Back to you, Kerry.
[00:01:33] KM: Thanks again, Gray. My guest today, organist, Dr. Colin MacKnight is called by composer and conductor Bob Chilcott "a stunning player of exceptional ability." Somehow, and lucky for us, this young man graduated from Juilliard and recipient of a musical awards, he has landed in Arkansas as Director of Music at Trinity Cathedral in downtown Little Rock.
Each week, he oversees a vibrant music program at Trinity. But that's not all. If you want to see him and hear some of his work, visit colinmacknight.com. Or visit flagandbanner.com for links to Colin. Today, we're going to learn about Colin's path to organ performance. Life as a musician. How this New Yorker came to live in Little Rock? And about his work and training to perform the complete organ works of Johann Sebastian Bach, which he's planning in 2025.
It is my pleasure to welcome to the table the creative, talented organist, and giant of a man, Mr. Colin MacKnight. Okay, I got to tell everybody –
[00:02:38] GM: Dr. Colin MacKnight.
[00:02:39] KM: Oh, I'm sorry. Dr. Colin MacKnight. Excuse me. I called you a giant because how tall are you?
[00:02:46] CM: I'm 6'5".
[00:02:48] KM: And he weighs 110 lbs.
[00:02:49] CM: I wish. No, that wouldn't be good.
[00:02:53] KM: Does your family – is your family tall?
[00:02:55] CM: Yep. My parents are both six-feet. When I'm fully grown, I'll be 12-feet.
[00:03:02] KM: Because you're adding them together.
[00:03:03] CM: That's how it works, right?
[00:03:04] KM: How about your sister?
[00:03:05] CM: She's 5'9". She's a shrimp.
[00:03:08] KM: You have a brother?
[00:03:09] CM: No.
[00:03:09] KM: All right. Many musicians come from a musical family. Is that you?
[00:03:14] CM: Mm-hmm. Yep. They're all musical. My mom's a professional singer, voice teacher, and also church musician. And my dad is an Episcopal priest. But he worked his way through seminary playing piano in bars.
[00:03:26] GM: Oh.
[00:03:28] CM: Yeah.
[00:03:28] KM: That's just like an Episcopal priest.
[00:03:29] CM: It is. Yeah.
[00:03:29] GM: I've met your dad. That makes sense to me.
[00:03:31] KM: That's the reason I'm an Episcopalian, because we can drink at church.
[00:03:34] CM: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:35] KM: So much so that Grady doesn't drink anymore. No. Not this Grady. The old –
[00:03:42] GM: Yeah. The one – our listeners are familiar with my dad.
[00:03:45] KM: Yeah, they are. Did you say your dad was an Episcopal priest?
[00:03:50] CM: Well, he still is. He's kind of retired. He did the clergy retirement, which means that he's still working but less.
[00:03:58] KM: Yeah. Did you always know that you were going to go into this profession?
[00:04:03] CM: No. I had these aspirations of being very independent and doing my own thing. And then purely by accident, I ended up the son of an Episcopal priest and a classical singer. I, by accident, ended up becoming a church musician. But as a young kid, I wanted to do very different things. So, I started on the guitar. And I refused to learn to read music. But, eventually, I kind of migrated back into the family professions.
[00:04:34] KM: How old were you when you picked up the guitar?
[00:04:35] CM: I was five or six. I was pretty young.
[00:04:38] KM: You didn't start playing this incredibly complicated organ until you were how old?
[00:04:42] CM: 16. I was playing a lot of other things before the organ.
[00:04:47] KM: When did you learn to read the music?
[00:04:49] CM: Six. My guitar teacher had none of that. She was great. She was my teacher for 12 years about?
[00:04:58] KM: How many instruments do you play?
[00:04:59] CM: Well, I would say I play one of them sometimes well.
[00:05:05] KM: Sometimes well. I'm not going to bore listeners with your accolades and awards. But you – how old are you?
[00:05:13] CM: I turned 31 two days ago.
[00:05:15] KM: Do you have more Awards than most people your age?
[00:05:18] CM: Um –
[00:05:20] KM: Yes. Let's just say it. I've never seen such a list of awards for a 30-year-old. You won every competition you've ever been in and been given prizes.
[00:05:30] CM: I don't talk about the ones I didn't win.
[00:05:31] KM: Oh. Well, that's smart.
[00:05:33] GM: Yeah. Right.
[00:05:36] KM: Did you go to boarding school for any of this?
[00:05:38] CM: I did for one year.
[00:05:40] KM: You seem like a boarding school person.
[00:05:41] CM: Well, it was only one year.
[00:05:42] KM: You're well-behaved.
[00:05:43] CM: Oh, thank you. It was reform school. It was for –
[00:05:47] KM: Was it really?
[00:05:48] CM: No. It was an arts boarding school. I was a double bass major there actually for my senior year of high school.
[00:05:53] KM: Stand-up bass?
[00:05:54] CM: Yeah. That was going to be my whole career and life path. But then I when I got into Juilliard for organ. And I preferred that.
[00:06:01] KM: Well, tell us about the pivot. Because I think that people believe, or a lot of young people believe that successful people know what they want to do. I mean, a lot of people are like, "Why do you want to sell flags?" I'm like, "It was a series of events. Wasn't something I planned." Tell us how the events took place and how you ended up at Juilliard playing the organ.
[00:06:23] CM: Yeah. It was kind of circuitous. I mentioned I played a bunch of other instruments. And, eventually, I kind of landed on double bass. Classical base. I was going to be in an orchestra or something for my career. And for my last year of high school, I went to Walnut Hill School for the Arts. An arts boarding school in Massachusetts that's associated with New England Conservatory in Boston. Every Saturday, we took the bus into Boston and had our orchestra rehearsals, and lessons, and all that.
But I also found a great organ teacher on the side while I was in Boston. And so, I ended up throwing in organ applications at the conservatories that had organ programs. I applied to nine schools. Some of which had organ programs. Some of them didn't. And I was a much stronger bass applicant. But I preferred the organ by then. And so, I got into Juilliard for organ and not for bass, which was kind of the opposite of how it should have been. And once that happened, I was like, "Well, this is done."
[00:07:21] KM: You got into Juilliard for?
[00:07:23] CM: For organ.
[00:07:25] KM: But you were a novice.
[00:07:27] CM: Yeah. I was pretty new.
[00:07:29] KM: How come they took you? Because your dad's got street cred there? Because he's an organ – a church organist?
[00:07:34] CM: No. I don't think they cared about that much. My dad's not an organist, really. But, I mean, he's a priest. He's in that business.
[00:07:41] KM: I thought you said he played music for –
[00:07:44] GM: Piano.
[00:07:44] CM: Yeah. Piano. Aha. And he's dabbled in organ a little bit. I hope he doesn't listen to this.
[00:07:48] KM: How'd you get in there? Your mother's a professional singer. Street cred? I mean, it's hard to get in Juilliard. Isn't it?
[00:07:54] CM: It is. Yeah. It's like a – I don't know what the acceptance rate is these days. 4% or something. But I think my teacher, Paul Jacobs, he was my teacher for all 10 years I was there. When I auditioned for him, I think he kind of just took a chance on me. He knew I was new. But I guess from what he heard, thought, "Well, maybe he has potential." And I'm really, really glad he did.
[00:08:20] KM: Mm-hmm. I noticed that when you list your – you said you were at Juilliard for 10 years, because you went all the way to get a PhD.
[00:08:27] CM: Yes. Actually, specifically, a DMA. Which is a doctorate of musical arts.
[00:08:34] KM: But it's like a PhD.
[00:08:35] CM: There are PhDs in music. But the PhD in music is purely academic.
[00:08:40] KM: For teaching.
[00:08:42] CM: Yeah. Specifically, for teaching musical academia topics. DMA is a mix of performance and academics. And then if you want just the pure performance, then you can get an artist diploma.
[00:08:56] KM: You listed in your resume that I read and even in your biography, you gave a shout out to all of your teachers, which you already mentioned Paul Jacobs for the organ. And then music theory, Dr. Laitz. And then conducting, Kent Tritle. And service playing by David [Name inaudible 00:09:18]. Why is it important to list the teachers of who you learned under when you're filling out resumes? Because I don't see that on regular work. Is it because the community is so small everybody knows each other? And so, you're like, "You're going to know this guy from Juilliard. I'm going to tell you I got trained with him."
[00:09:35] CM: Yeah. I think there is some of that. My organ teacher at Juilliard, Paul Jacobs, is quite a well-known figure in the profession. He's the only organist ever to have one a Grammy. He's got a stellar career in both teaching and performing. His Grammy was for this gigantic work by Olivier Messiaen, Livre Du Saint-Sacrement, which is over an hour long.
[00:09:59] GM: Yeah. And he won the Gammy for a recording of it, right?
[00:10:02] CM: Yeah.
[00:10:02] KM: So, not a Disney movie. That's what I was thinking. Really, that's what I thought. They got great music on –
[00:10:08] CM: I don't think he has yet collaborated with Disney. But Disney, if you're listening, Paul Jacobs is your guy.
[00:10:14] KM: They probably already know that. Let's talk about, before we go to a break, last question, doctoral dissertation. You say it, because it's Latin. What's the name of it? Your doctoral dissertation. Do you need to read it?
[00:10:28] CM: Ex Uno Plures. Okay, I had to think about it. It's been a while. But Ex Uno Plures: A Proposed Completion of Bach's Art of Fugue.
[00:10:36] KM: What's fugue?
[00:10:37] CM: Fugue?
[00:10:38] KM: Aha.
[00:10:38] CM: Oh, man. That's a tough one. A fugue is a type of a musical piece with very specific rules in it. There's a main theme called the subject. And the subject keeps coming in in the different voices. You'll have like the soprano part play or sing it. And then the altos, and the tenors, and the basses. But it has to keep changing keys. Basically, it's one of the most virtuosic types of pieces you can write. And Bach was the undisputed master of the fugue. He wrote probably a thousand of them.
[00:11:10] KM: But nobody but trained people can understand any of that stuff he writes.
[00:11:17] CM: Oh, I wouldn't agree with that.
[00:11:19] KM: You don't?
[00:11:19] GM: I think you can listen to it and appreciate it without knowing exactly what a fugue is.
[00:11:26] CM: Yeah. I mean, even if you are trained, I don't think that even really brilliant musicians are going to hear every detail of a Bach piece on the first hearing or maybe even the 10th hearing. There's just too much there. And so, my hope is that anyone can appreciate it on some level. Even though nobody will probably ever fully get it, myself included.
[00:11:49] KM: Really?
[00:11:50] CM: Aha. I still find things in pieces I've played for years. Like, "Oh, my gosh. Bach, what a genius. What a jerk."
[00:11:57] KM: What a jerk. That's so true.
[00:11:59] CM: It is. Yeah.
[00:12:00] GM: What a genius. What a jerk.
[00:12:01] KM: Well, they did kind of go together.
[00:12:03] GM: Oh, yeah.
[00:12:03] KM: You know? You won a prize for it. Richard French Doctoral Prize for your dissertation. You've told us the name of it. But why did they like it? What was different about your dissertation on Bach than anybody else's? Because it seems like probably everybody's done that.
[00:12:23] CM: Yeah. That was the danger with my topic, is, I think with dissertations, you can either go really esoteric. Or you can do something like Bach's art of fugue, which is already really, really researched. And I tried to add something new to the existing Bach resarch.
[00:12:41] KM: What was it? What did you add new? Can you remember?
[00:12:44] CM: Can I remember? Well, a little bit of background is that the art of fugue, this work is an incomplete piece by Bach. And so, what I was doing is trying to find out how Bach would have finished it. Or if it's just lost, how he did finish it. And so, I was trying to complete the work kind of in a way that's not putting myself into it. It's just discovering what Bach was going to do. Because Bach had all of these patterns and all of these habits and ways of doing things that indicate in great detail down to the exact number of measures what he was going to do at the end of this piece.
[00:13:21] KM: Your dissertation actually was a musical piece?
[00:13:25] CM: Yeah. Well, it's a whole lot of text.
[00:13:28] KM: You wrote – and then you had the musical piece that supported the text.
[00:13:32] CM: Yeah. Or maybe vice versa. A few hundred pages of text backing up my musical piece.
[00:13:40] KM: You're too smart for me to even interview. All right, this a great place to take a break. When we come back, we'll talk more with Trinity Cathedral's Music Director and Organist, Dr. Colin MacKnight. Still to come, how this gifted New York musician, who has played all over the world, landed in Little Rock, Arkansas. And music talked for those interested in music or for those considering a career in music. We'll be right back.
[BREAK]
[00:14:02] GM: You're listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. In 1975, with only $400, Kerry founded Arkansas Flag and Banner. Since then, the business has grown and changed along with Kerry's experience and leadership knowledge.
In 1995, she embraced the internet and rebranded her company as simply flagandbanner.com. In 2004, she became an early blogger. Since then, she has founded the nonprofit Friends of Dreamland Ballroom. Began publishing her magazine, Brave. And in 2016, branched out into this very radio show, YouTube channel, and podcast.
In 2020, Kerry McCoy Enterprises acquired ourcornermarket.com, an online company specializing in American-made plaques, signage, and memorials. In 2021, Flag and Banner expanded to a satellite office in Miami, Florida where first-generation immigrants keep the art of sewing alive and flags made in America.
Telling American-made stories, selling American-made flags, the flagandbanner.com. Back to you, Kerry.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[00:15:05] KM: We're speaking today with the talented organist and music director at Trinity Cathedral in downtown Little Rock, Arkansas, Dr. Colin MacKnight. Talk about life at college. The yearns, the fears. And how you went about getting a job afterwards? My granddaughter just left for college. I am reminded of how scary it is. You're from New York.
[00:15:25] CM: No.
[00:15:27] KM: You lived in New York.
[00:15:29] CM: I did once, I went to school.
[00:15:31] KM: Oh. I was going to say you live in New York. So, you go to Juilliard. It's not that strange for you. But where did you come from? Where do you hail from?
[00:15:40] CM: Bethesda, Maryland. Right outside of DC. I lived a half mile out of the district.
[00:15:45] KM: That's close enough.
[00:15:47] CM: Four hours by car.
[00:15:49] KM: Yeah. That's like calling me a Texan. I'll take it.
[00:15:53] GM: Ooh, don't let too many Arkansans hear you say that.
[00:15:56] KM: You know, when you tell people you're from Arkansas, they go, "Oh, Texas."
[00:15:59] GM: Aha. Yeah. Especially on the other side of the world.
[00:16:01] KM: Yeah. That's the way I am about Maryland, New York, and New Jersey, and DC, and all that up there. It's all kind of right there on a train ride away from each other.
[00:16:09] CM: There's nothing like New York though.
[00:16:12] KM: You're right. I love that City. Talk about going there and how you accomplished – you faced your fears, which it sounds like you do a lot from all your competition. And then what you did afterwards about getting a job.
[00:16:27] CM: Well, I actually got a job my junior year. And so, out of 10 years at Juilliard, I had jobs for eight of them, including one year that was full-time. Work alongside full-time school, which was a busy year. Juilliard is a very strange, unusual place. And, actually, I really liked it. It's 800, 850 people. All the way from bachelor's to doctorate. It's a very small school. Just this little building and a dorm high-rise next to it on 65th in Amsterdam off of Lincoln Center.
And when I was there, I practiced six to eight hours a day. Had very few classes that weren't musical in some way. And the organ department is required to learn and perform a new piece every week in the weekly organ studio class. And that class is open to the public. It's like a department recital every week. And that was amazing experience having to learn and perform a new piece every week.
[00:17:28] KM: Every week.
[00:17:29] CM: Yeah. And for my first five or six years, it was always memorized. It's scary. That is the scariest thing playing every week on Thursday at 11:00am for your classmates, your teacher, and a small audience of people – some guests and also some people who are there every week. And to really know their stuff.
[00:17:51] KM: Who know.
[00:17:52] CM: Yeah. And that room doesn't hide a thing. If you even think about hitting the wrong note, everybody will hear it.
[00:18:02] KM: How long did you have to – how long was the piece that you memorized?
[00:18:05] CM: Oh, it varied a lot. I mean, at the shortest, a couple minutes. At the longest, a half hour.
[00:18:11] KM: Oh, that'd be tough.
[00:18:11] CM: It varies.
[00:18:13] KM: Let's talk about you coming to Little Rock.
[00:18:15] CM: Sure.
[00:18:17] KM: how long after you graduated from college or Juilliard was it before you came to Little Rock?
[00:18:23] CM: It was just a couple of months after my last graduation. I got my doctorate in June of '21. I think it was June. And then I was here in July.
[00:18:34] KM: Applying for the job or working?
[00:18:37] CM: I was here working in July of '21.
[00:18:41] KM: Okay. Gray. This is for our listeners. For musicians who want to apply for jobs. You interviewed Colin. And you came back and was telling me all about him.
[00:18:50] GM: Oh, yeah.
[00:18:51] KM: I'm sorry, Colin. I told him he was too young. Don't hire him.
[00:18:55] CM: That's right.
[00:18:56] GM: He's fresh out of school.
[00:18:57] KM: Don't get somebody fresh out of school. Get someone who's experienced. Gray came back though.
[00:19:02] CM: Oh, that's a good advice.
[00:19:04] KM: So you know, that's an old person. But Gray came back and said, "This guy is phenomenal." What was it in the interview that sealed the deal for you?
[00:19:14] GM: One of the things that you look for in a church musician is obviously good musicianship, which, 10 years of Juilliard, you better be a good musician. You know? We kind of knew that that was coming with the package. But the other thing that you look for is how good they are as a music minister. Meaning, how personable they are? How well they get along with others? How well they work with other departments? How cordial, congenial, nice they are with the parishioners in your congregation.
First impression I remember was that Colin was very articulate and professional. But I recall that you probably had the demeanor that fit the most with our congregation. You were professional without being cold. And, also, friendly without being unserious. Yeah. I think just personality-wise, you fit the bill. Maybe more so than as a musician.
[00:20:08] KM: Why did you decide to come to Little Rock?
[00:20:09] CM: There's a lot of great stuff about Trinity and also Little Rock. I didn't know as much about Little Rock at the time. Trinity first. Trinity is one of the only parishes in the country to do weekly choral evensongs, which is an afternoon or early evening service that's mostly music. And it's one of the jewels of the Anglican tradition and the Episcopal tradition. But it's also – sadly, in the United States, it's pretty rare these days.
Whereas in England, English cathedrals will usually do even songs every day of the week with choir and different music every day. But the fact that we get to do it even once a week is really rare and unusual. That's a big part of it. I mean, it's a very supportive congregation. My boss, the dean of the cathedral, Amy Dafler Meaux –
[00:20:58] GM: Who's been on this podcast?
[00:20:59] CM: Oh, great. She's so wonderfully supportive. And every crazy idea that I have, usually she's like, "All right. Let's try it and see how it works." And the whole community's been that way.
[00:21:12] KM: What you find unexpected about Little Rock that you didn't expect?
[00:21:17] CM: Interesting. It's a lot hillier than I thought it would be. The first 3 weeks that my now fiancé and I were here, we lived in Kerry's guest house.
[00:21:29] KM: That would be my back guest house.
[00:21:31] CM: Aha. Which is wonderful. And driving from Trinity to the guest house, you go up a lot of hills at the end. And there's one that's like crazy incline.
[00:21:44] KM: Oh, Cantrell.
[00:21:45] CM: No, no, no, no. Not Cantrell. It's farther up in Hillcrest. Like you've already turned onto – from Cantrell. What is that road off of –
[00:21:55] GM: Probably Elsa Park Road.
[00:21:56] CM: Elsa, yeah. And then there's some roads up there. And so, I did not think that Little Rock was going to have these like 30° inclines or whatever it is.
[00:22:04] KM: What would you say you love the most about Little Rock? Not the church, but the city.
[00:22:11] CM: I think Little Rock really punches above its weight for its cost of living. Because it's got all of these great things that a city of – what? 200,000 probably wouldn't usually have.
[00:22:23] KM: Like a symphony.
[00:22:24] CM: The symphony, and theaters, and the ballet, and the art museum, and the presidential library, and a church that does weekly choral evensongs. It's got lots of stuff that is really special.
[00:22:39] KM: And what did not live up to your expectations? Be honest.
[00:22:44] CM: I haven't found a Thai restaurant I'm happy with yet.
[00:22:49] GM: That's because they're – you have to go to Northwest Arkansas for good Thai food.
[00:22:53] CM: Okay.
[00:22:54] KM: How did you talk your fiancé – I don't know if she your girlfriend at the time, Marilyn, who is now your fiancé. How did you talk her into coming here? Because she's also a singer.
[00:23:03] CM: Yeah. She's a singer. She sings at St. Marks.
[00:23:06] KM: Why don't you let her sing with us?
[00:23:08] CM: You know, ask her. She wants to give me my space.
[00:23:13] KM: Yeah. I can't believe it. Anyway. All right. Go ahead.
[00:23:15] CM: I think it makes some sense.
[00:23:16] KM: How'd you get her to come?
[00:23:20] CM: It wasn't very hard actually. We had been in New York through Covid. Being in New York for Covid, it was like – it's why bother. Paying over 2,000 a month in rent to what? Hang out in the apartment? That's not why you pay for New York prices.
[00:23:38] KM: Ready for a change.
[00:23:39] CM: Yeah. She was ready for a change. And she also worked remotely or like mostly remotely. And so, there was a decent chance that her job could transition to being fully remote. And that is what happened.
[00:23:50] KM: One of your courses you took was on service playing. Is that because you have to – to be an organist, you have to pretty much be in a church?
[00:23:59] CM: Mostly. There are some exceptions. I mean, my teacher at Juilliard is one of those exceptions. But for me, it's not something I do because I'm an organist and I have to make a living. So, I guess I'll do church. I actually really love doing church. And find it to be such an interesting combination of skills that I think, many classical musicians, they really just do one or two things. Like, they play in the orchestra or they do their chamber music. But if you're in church music, then you've got improvising, and solo repertoire, and conducting choirs, and working with professionals, and working with amateurs, and working with kids. It's so wonderfully varied. And I do really love that.
[00:24:44] KM: Describe a pipe organ for someone who has never seen one.
[00:24:49] CM: Huh. The part that you play, it's sort of piano like, except it has multiple keyboards and it has a keyboard for your feet. And the way it makes sound is the way that a flute makes sound or a clarinet, which is through these pipes. And so, the keys control pipes and it lets air through the right pipes at the right time.
[00:25:14] KM: It's not like a piano that's really an upright harp. Like a piano is a harp on its side. An organ is not like that.
[00:25:21] CM: No. It doesn't have any percussion. Well, it sometimes does a little bit. But, mainly, no. Yeah, the differences between the piano and the organ are really extreme actually. And most people are not good at both. Some people think they're good at both. But most people are not good at both.
[00:25:39] KM: And you lump them together in your mind because they've got –
[00:25:42] GM: They both have a keyboard.
[00:25:43] KM: They both have a keyboard. So you think of them as the same thing.
[00:25:45] CM: Yeah. They're so different though. I mean, I would not claim to be a good pianist.
[00:25:49] KM: Really?
[00:25:51] CM: No.
[00:25:52] KM: All right. This is a great place to take a break. When we come back, we'll continue our conversation with Trinity Cathedral's talented music director and organist, Dr. Colin MacKnight. Still to come, how to follow Colin and attend one of his concerts like the one he is working on now for 2025, a complete organ works of Johann Sebastian Bach. We'll be right back.
[BREAK]
[00:26:13] TM: Flagandbanner.com, we have a YouTube channel with over a hundred tutorials. Decorating tips, interviews, lots more, too. Anytime you have a question about flags, we're the experts. Flagandbanner.com and our YouTube channel.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[00:26:27] KM: We're speaking today with a talented organist and music director of Trinity Cathedral in downtown Little Rock, Arkansas, Dr. Colin MacKnight. Now we're going to talk about what you're practicing right now. You're doing the complete performance organ work of Johann Sebastian Bach. Tell us about that. It's his 275th anniversary of his death.
[00:26:45] CM: Yes, in 2025.
[00:26:47] KM: And he's still relevant.
[00:26:49] CM: Oh, yeah super relevant. That's a very big project, because he wrote about 18 hours of organ music. And his organ music is no joke. Sometimes one page of his organ music can take, I don't know, 5 hours, 10 hours to learn. And my complete Bach organ music volumes, they're about this big of a stack. What is that? 14, 16 inches of music?
[00:27:15] KM: Yeah. That's tall.
[00:27:17] CM: It's a lot. Yeah.
[00:27:19] KM: That's sheet music?
[00:27:20] CM: Aha. Yeah.
[00:27:22] KM: How much music did this guy make?
[00:27:25] GM: Tons.
[00:27:25] CM: Yeah. He was sort of unfathomably prolific. And historians still don't understand how he did everything he did. Because he composed like someone who had nothing else to do. But he had a lot of other stuff to do.
[00:27:39] KM: What did he do besides perform?
[00:27:41] CM: Well, depends on which part of his career we're talking about. But if we're talking about like the end of his career, the last 20 some years, which he spent in Leipzig, then he was conducting –
[00:27:52] KM: Which he spent where?
[00:27:53] CM: In Leipzig, Germany. He was doing services, playing and conducting. He was preparing the orchestra for all these services, because they almost always had orchestra and choir. He had to compose a new large work called a cantata every week, which those cantatas can sometimes be 20, 30 minutes. He wrote a new one every week. And then he had to orchestrate it and copy out the parts. And then he also had to teach Latin, and math, and whatever else was needed of him. And then he was also doing sort of civil or civic musical duties, like conducting for concerts and special services for like – he has some funny secular pieces, like a coffee cantata.
[00:28:38] KM: What's that? Drink coffee and listen to it?
[00:28:41] CM: Yeah. It's a piece about coffee.
[00:28:43] KM: Does it have words?
[00:28:45] CM: Yeah.
[00:28:46] KM: In Latin?
[00:28:47] GM: Did not know this.
[00:28:47] CM: German.
[00:28:48] GM: That's hilarious.
[00:28:49] CM: I think. Probably in German. Yeah. He was writing for secular things, too. And so, the amount that he –
[00:28:58] KM: Maybe he didn't write it all.
[00:28:59] CM: Well, it's funny you mention that, because one of the things that someone doing complete Bach organ has to figure out is which pieces they're going to do. Because there are what are called spurious pieces, which are pieces that are attributed to Bach but are almost certainly not by him. And so, I mentioned though, 14 to 16-inch stack. A little bit of that is stuff that I'm not going to play because it's almost certainly not by Bach. But most of it's just Bach. And I have to suck it up and learn it.
[00:29:30] KM: People that read his stuff can tell whether he wrote it or somebody else.
[00:29:37] CM: Yeah. Actually, yesterday or the day before, I was reading through a piece and I was like, "This is really sketchy in some ways." And I Googled the piece and did see that it's spurious. I'm like, "Oh, thank God. I don't actually have to learn this one."
[00:29:50] KM: Why are you challenging yourself to learn all of this? How many hours is it going to be?
[00:29:55] GM: Because he's the Bach guy.
[00:29:57] KM: How many hours is it going to be when you get – when you've learned it all, how many hours of play?
[00:30:01] CM: It's 18 hours of music.
[00:30:03] KM: And you're going to break it up into different performances like this?
[00:30:05] CM: Yeah. I'm not going to do what my teacher at Juilliard did. He played it all in one concert. It was in 2000. And so, that would have been the 250th anniversary of Bach's death. And I think he might have done it on the death anniversary or maybe Bach's birthday. One of those special days. And he did it all in one go. He just took a break to have a cup of Kozy Shack chocolate pudding. That's the only thing he ate during those 18 hours.
[00:30:35] KM: Well, the audience just came and went, and came and went, and came and went?
[00:30:38] CM: Yeah. And some die-hards spent the whole time there from 6:00am to 12:18am.
[00:30:45] KM: Well, they could nap in the pews. Was he up there doing lines or something? How did he stay up there?
[00:30:50] GM: Yeah, right.
[00:30:50] KM: I mean, really. Was he got his bottle of riddling on the counter? I mean, how's he doing that?
[00:30:55] CM: He says it was just the pudding.
[00:30:57] KM: It was just the pudding.
[00:30:58] CM: The one cup of pudding. Yeah. I'm not doing that.
[00:31:02] KM: No. Thank you. That sounds like it would be really hard no you.
[00:31:06] CM: No. I couldn't do that. No. I'm doing mostly these Wednesday lunchtime recital at Trinity. Wednesday is at 12:15. For just 30 minutes every week. There's one exception, which is on July 28th, Bach's death anniversary, I'll do what's called the Clavier-Übung III, which is his largest organ work. And that's about an hour-45. And I'll do that all in one go that night.
[00:31:33] KM: In the evening.
[00:31:33] CM: Yeah.
[00:31:34] KM: When are you starting this?
[00:31:36] CM: January 8th. January 1st is New Year's Day. I don't expect anybody to want to come listen to Bach on New Year's Day. We're starting the next week.
[00:31:44] KM: Speaking of listening to music, what do you and Marilyn listen to when you're cooking?
[00:31:50] CM: It depends who's picking the music. Usually, it's Marilyn.
[00:31:55] KM: Smart husband.
[00:31:56] CM: She plays a lot of classic stuff, Frank Sinatra, and Ella Fitzgerald, and that kind of stuff.
[00:32:05] KM: Etta James. That kind of music. That's the kind of music my husband listens to besides country. Y'all listen to country music?
[00:32:10] CM: No.
[00:32:11] KM: Now that you moved to the country? Well, we're going to have to turn you on some old classics. You got to listen to Johnny Cash.
[00:32:17] GM: Yes.
[00:32:18] KM: He's from Arkansas.
[00:32:19] GM: Yeah. Arkansan.
[00:32:20] CM: Oh, okay. Cool.
[00:32:20] KM: Have you listened to Florence Price? The celebrated composer from Arkansas?
[00:32:24] CM: I have. I've even played a little bit of her music.
[00:32:26] GM: I think that was the first concert of yours I went to was when you did a little Florence Price.
[00:32:31] CM: Oh, really?
[00:32:32] GM: I think so. Yeah.
[00:32:34] CM: That was a year and a half ago now?
[00:32:36] GM: Mm-hmm. Maybe not the first then. But, yeah.
[00:32:38] CM: You know, what's actually funny is that that concert where I played that Florence Price piece, that was right before this big competition I did. And the competition, they had one required piece, and it was by Florence Price. And I was like, "Oh, that's fun. This Little Rock native." And here I am competing this Little Rock guy.
[00:32:57] KM: I think there's so much serendipity in life. It just freaks me out all the time. How many hours a day do you practice?
[00:33:05] CM: Gosh. Well, now that I have a big boy job, a really good day is like three hours. And a not good day is not playing at all.
[00:33:15] KM: Is that because your job gets in the way?
[00:33:17] CM: Yeah. That's pesky jobs.
[00:33:19] KM: I know.
[00:33:20] CM: It's great though. I mean, my job does include practice time.
[00:33:23] KM: It does or doesn't?
[00:33:24] CM: It does.
[00:33:25] KM: Oh. You're practicing 3 hours. And then you're playing for your job another couple of hours.
[00:33:32] CM: Yeah. It's a mix. I mean, all my practice time does not fit into – with my other work, it does not fit into eight hours a day.
[00:33:39] KM: What is this ensemble that you have created? The Trinitas?
[00:33:43] CM: Yeah. The Trinitas Ensemble.
[00:33:43] KM: Is that still around?
[00:33:44] CM: It is. Next concert, September 20th.
[00:33:48] KM: Are you singing in it, Gray?
[00:33:49] GM: No. No. Have some friends that are though.
[00:33:51] KM: Yeah. I saw all your friends in it. September the 20th.
[00:33:56] CM: At 7:30.
[00:33:56] GM: Great ensemble.
[00:33:57] CM: Thanks.
[00:33:59] GM: Yeah. I went to the last concert. It was so good.
[00:34:01] CM: Oh, thank you.
[00:34:01] GM: Oh, yeah. It's great.
[00:34:03] KM: September the 20th, 7:30.
[00:34:03] CM: Cathedral of St. Andrew.
[00:34:06] KM: St. Andrew is the Catholic church downtown, right?
[00:34:08] CM: Yeah.
[00:34:08] KM: They're mostly – well, they look like. When I look through they, they were from all congregations. It wasn't –
[00:34:14] CM: The singers?
[00:34:15] KM: Yeah.
[00:34:16] CM: Yeah, it's a mix. Trinity people, St. Andrew's people.
[00:34:19] KM: Is Marilyn singing?
[00:34:20] CM: She is. Aha.
[00:34:22] KM: Praise the Lord. I'm going.
[00:34:23] GM: Yeah.
[00:34:25] KM: And then the Bach that you're going to start on Wednesday is at Trinity for lunch. It's brown bag. Bring your lunch. Right? Would you say? Or is it in the cathedral?
[00:34:35] CM: It's in the cathedral.
[00:34:34] KM: Oh, you got to be in the cathedral. You can't bring your lunch. You can't eat in the cathedral. People, you can't eat in the cathedral.
[00:34:38] CM: Yeah. I would want to double check that before I say anything public. Yeah.
[00:34:41] KM: No, no, no. You can't eat in the cathedral. You can't. But it's 30 minutes, Wednesdays at noon.
[00:34:48] CM: Yeah. 12:15. Starting on January 8th.
[00:34:52] KM: Gray, write all that down. And let's make sure and we make notes for him. Now let's talk about the business of music. I had to look up. You kept using AGO. AGO. I was like, "What is AGO?" It's the American Guild of Organists. Are you still on the board in the New York Chapter?
[00:35:12] CM: No. But I'm dean of the Central Arkansas chapter.
[00:35:16] KM: Oh. There's –
[00:35:19] CM: There's one here. They're all over the place.
[00:35:20] KM: In every state?
[00:35:22] CM: Probably.
[00:35:22] GM: Yeah, I think so.
[00:35:24] KM: How many organ players are there in the world? I mean, you have to work in a church because you can't have a pipe organ anywhere.
[00:35:30] GM: Well, think about how many churches there are.
[00:35:32] CM: A lot of churches. And, also, yeah, you don't need to be a serious player to be in the guild. You can just be an appreciator.
[00:35:40] KM: And you could have a small organ. You don't have to have a pipe organ. You know, you could just be playing an organ in your house or something.
[00:35:46] CM: Yeah. As long as you pay dues, you can be in the AGO.
[00:35:50] KM: I've noticed that you do a lot of competing. Does everybody in your industry do a lot of competing? Or is that just a self-inflicted pain you put on yourself?
[00:35:59] CM: I think more the latter. Some people do a fair amount. Yeah, I've done a lot. But now that I'm 31, there aren't a whole lot of competitions I'm still young enough to do.
[00:36:10] KM: Oh, really?
[00:36:12] CM: I'm over the hill now.
[00:36:11] KM: I can understand that you might want to set a goal and then it forces you to practice because you know you have a deadline. I can understand that. I think that young artists should think about competing more because it forces you to hone your skill, you know?
[00:36:32] CM: Yeah. I generally had great experiences even if I didn't win. Met new people and made new connections. And I had this thing to work towards, as you mentioned. Yeah.
[00:36:42] KM: Yeah. I always got to have something to work towards in my life. Travel is a big part of your career. Does everybody in the organ business have to travel?
[00:36:51] CM: Well –
[00:36:51] KM: I noticed you've played all over the world.
[00:36:55] CM: Well, if you're just doing church, then probably not so much. But if you do concerts and competitions, then, yeah, there'll inevitably be traveling.
[00:37:04] GM: Competitions, I feel like, are something for – at least for a lot of classical musicians, it's like a prudent career choice at a certain age. You're getting yourself out there. Like you said, you're setting goals for yourself. It's good to put on your resume.
[00:37:20] KM: You're connecting with other musicians.
[00:37:22] GM: Totally. Yeah.
[00:37:22] CM: It's great for networking. That's a good reason to think about it, too. You say you are represented in the North American by Karen McFarlane Artists. Is that a talent agency?
[00:37:31] CM: It is specifically for concert organists and choirs.
[00:37:35] KM: If I wanted to hire you, I would have to call your talent agency.
[00:37:38] CM: You would. John McElliott is the guy.
[00:37:41] KM: Really?
[00:37:42] CM: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:42] KM: Did he help you get your job here?
[00:37:45] CM: No. He doesn't do that kind of work as far as I know of getting involved in church hires. It's really just concerts. If, at Trinity, I wanted to bring in some hot shot recitalist, then I could call John and be like, "Hey, I want to bring in the organist of Notre-Dame in Paris or something." And he'd say, "Okay. Well, here's his fee and here's when he's available." That kind of thing.
[00:38:09] KM: Who are some of the ones you've brought in that you really like that you brought in from other places to play at Trinity? I remember there was a vocal coach you brought in one time that was really good.
[00:38:17] CM: Oh, yeah. Connor Lidell. He's been here twice. And he's amazing. Yeah. We've brought in a number of different people. Connor, who's a Dallas-based baritone and voice teacher. Fabulous singer. Fabulous understanding of vocal anatomy.
[00:38:35] KM: Yeah. , when he sings, he uses his whole mouth. You know?
[00:38:41] GM: He uses his whole body.
[00:38:43] CM: Yeah. He's the real deal. And we've brought James O'Donnell, who was the director of music of Westminster Abby. He's now on faculty at Yale. He spent a weekend with the choirs. And he also gave a lecture at Trinity. We've brought two different organists to accompany silent movies.
[00:39:04] GM: I was hoping you're going to bring that up.
[00:39:06] CM: Aha. Yep.
[00:39:06] KM: What?
[00:39:08] GM: You've not been to the silent movies yet?
[00:39:09] KM: No.
[00:39:09] GM: Oh. On Halloween – not Night of the Living Dead. What's the vampire one? The Nosferatu.
[00:39:17] CM: Nosferatu. Yeah. That was the first one we did.
[00:39:18] GM: Oh, so fun. So fun.
[00:39:20] CM: Yeah. There's this tradition back when movies were silent. The theaters would of – they would often have an organ in them. And get this expert improviser to improvise an accompaniment for the movie. And so, we've done that twice. And we're doing it again on October 10th.
[00:39:38] KM: Write that one down.
[00:39:38] CM: This time, the movie is Hunchback of Notre-Dame. The 1923 silent film.
[00:39:42] GM: Oh, that'll be good.
[00:39:44] CM: Yeah.
[00:39:46] GM: I missed the second one. What did we do last year?
[00:39:49] CM: The Navigator. Buster Keaton.
[00:39:50] GM: Yeah. That was it.
[00:39:52] CM: Yeah. That was a very funny movie.
[00:39:54] GM: Yeah. The Nosferatu was so fun just because I think that kind of stereotypical, kind of like creepy aesthetic of the pipe organ goes so well with those like kind of campy, old horror movies. You know? Spooky. The spooky vibe. Yeah, it's very fun.
[00:40:10] KM: You know Charlie Chaplain? Are you gonna do any with him?
[00:40:13] CM: That'd be fun.
[00:40:14] GM: Oh, yeah.
[00:40:14] KM: Charlie Chaplin. For anybody who wants to know, he's got a documentary on Netflix. That is off the chain. Did you know he created United Artist Theatre?
[00:40:28] GM: Yes, I did.
[00:40:29] CM: No.
[00:40:30] KM: He was an unbelievable businessman. And was the most famous person in the world at one time. Charlie Chaplin, that guy that walks funny with a hat and a cane.
[00:40:42] CM: I know he's so funny though. Modern Times. What a movie.
[00:40:45] KM: Well, his documentary. And he got ran out of America during McCarthy. Was it McCarthyism that started saying everybody was communist?
[00:40:52] GM: Yeah.
[00:40:54] KM: They ran him out of the country. And he lived a sad ending to his life.
[00:40:57] CM: Oh, man.
[00:40:58] KM: I know. It's really a bummer. It's a really good story. I think this is another great place to take a break.
We've been speaking with the tall, talented, music director and organist, Dr. Colin MacKcnight, from Trinity Cathedral in downtown Little Rock. Next, tips and encouragement for budding musicians. And a recap of how to follow Colin and attend one of his performances. We've told you three of them in the next six months, I think. We've done the –
[00:41:25] GM: Bach series. The upcoming silent movie performance.
[00:41:30] KM: Silent movie. And then what was the other one we said? Oh, Trinitas.
[00:41:34] GM: Oh, yes. The Trinitas concert.
[00:41:37] KM: The Trinitas concert. Yeah, come back and we'll tell you again. And we'll recap all of those.
[BREAK]
[00:41:39] TM: Flagandbanner.com. We have a YouTube channel with over 100 tutorials, decorating tips, interviews. Lots more, too. Anytime you have a question about flags, we're the experts. Flagandbanner.com and our YouTube channel. Also, on our website, you can get directed to that YouTube channel to watch the videos of previous Up in Your Business shows. We've had lots of interesting guests just like this week's. And you can re-watch and relisten to them all at our YouTube channel or flagandbanner.com.
[INTERVIEW CONINTUED]
[00:42:08] KM: We're speaking today with the talented organist and music director at Trinity Cathedral in downtown Little Rock, Arkansas, Dr. Colin. MacKnight. Before the break, we did some great talking about how he got to Little Rock and about being a musician. But now we're going to talk to him, and I'm going to give him a quiz on classical words.
[00:42:29] CM: Oh, man.
[00:42:31] KM: People come to Trinity. And, really, any of these Anglican churches, and they're a little bit turned off because the music, y'all, is so hard to sing. I mean, the Southern songs are like, "Going down to the river." I mean, they're easy. We've heard the Baptist Southern songs.
[00:42:49] GM: Oh, you mean like the hymn book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:42:51] KM: Yeah. But then you go into ours and Grady's always like, "Well, Colin picked the hardest song to sing on the planet."
[00:42:59] GM: I don't know. I don't think his choices are that bad.
[00:43:01] KM: Well, that's because you're an opera singer, Gray.
[00:43:02] CM: Oh, you should look through that book. There is some weird stuff in that book that I don't touch. There's one called – it's either Petra or Petrus. I always mix those two up. But it's in the Easter section. And it is totally crazy.
[00:43:19] GM: I'm going to look it up now.
[00:43:20] CM: It's pretty funny.
[00:43:21] KM: All right. One of the things about church is they don't call a sermon a sermon. They call it a homily. They don't call the janitor a janitor. They call him the sexton. They don't call the garden the garden. They call it the garth. I mean, I had to like come and take –
[00:43:39] GM: Are these church terms or music terms?
[00:43:40] KM: I don't know. Music terms. But I have music ones right here that daughter Megan just printed out for me.
[00:43:45] CM: Oh, boy.
[00:43:46] KM: What's a shanty?
[00:43:51] CM: Like a ship song, right?
[00:43:52] KM: Yeah. I was trying to trick you on that one. It's a sea song.
[00:43:56] CM: Aha. You almost did.
[00:43:56] GM: It's what sailors do.
[00:43:58] KM: Aha. All right. Crescendo?
[00:44:01] CM: Get louder.
[00:44:03] KM: That's right. Everybody knows that one. All right. Here we go, largo.
[00:44:08] CM: Slow. Or long.
[00:44:09] KM: That's right. Libretto.
[00:44:12] CM: Libretto is the script of an opera.
[00:44:15] KM: Yeah. Why don't they just call it a script? See? That's the kind of stuff that drives me nuts. Mezzo.
[00:44:24] CM: Mezzo? Marylin is a mezza. An alto.
[00:44:26] KM: Soprano.
[00:44:28] CM: Yeah, essentially.
[00:44:29] KM: They're my favorite voice. It's the low soprano. What pop star is a mezzo soprano?
[00:44:37] GM: Adele. She's a mezzo.
[00:44:40] KM: Oh. Everybody loves her. Everybody loves that. And everybody loves the man – the baritone man. Everybody loves the baritone –
[00:44:49] GM: Sure. Well, every crooner is a baritone. Like Frank Sinatra, like we're talking about.
[00:44:54] KM: What's Josh Groban?
[00:44:55] GM: Baritone.
[00:44:56] KM: See? Everybody loves that.
[00:44:58] CM: Connor's a baritone.
[00:45:00] GM: Connor. Yeah. Aha.
[00:45:01] CM: The guy who's come to Trinity a couple of times.
[00:45:01] GM: Connor Lidell. Yeah. Who we're just talking about.
[00:45:04] KM: That's coming new to Trinity?
[00:45:06] CM: Who sings with his whole mouth.
[00:45:08] KM: Oh, the guy that sing – yes. He does. His tongue does some curls. I mean, he really works at every note sounding perfect. Okay. How about this? N-E-U-M-E-S?
[00:45:22] CM: Oh, neumes.
[00:45:23] KM: Yeah.
[00:45:24] CM: Neumes are the names of the notes in medieval notation.
[00:45:30] GM: Aha. It's a note before the note. Notes before notes existed.
[00:45:37] KM: There's an opera, a musical drama, and then there's an operetta.
[00:45:42] CM: Shorter opera perhaps with some spoken parts instead of sung all the way through.
[00:45:48] KM: Oratorio.
[00:45:49] CM: Oratorio, that is opera-ish but it's not staged. And they're not always but often sacred.
[00:45:58] KM: Ostinato.
[00:46:00] CM: Ostinato. That is a repeating figure.
[00:46:06] KM: You're getting an A for all of these. Requiem. We all know what's a requiem. A lot of people don't know what a requiem is.
[00:46:12] CM: Yeah. It's a mass for the dead.
[00:46:17] KM: Retrograde. Sing backwards? Who does that?
[00:46:20] CM: Well, retrograde is when a musical idea is done backwards. From last note to first note. Even Beethoven actually uses retrograde here and there.
[00:46:34] KM: Staccato.
[00:46:35] CM: Very short note.
[00:46:39] KM: Short and snappy.
[00:46:39] CM: Exactly.
[00:46:40] KM: Syncopation.
[00:46:43] CM: When the offbeats are emphasized rather than the on-beats.
[00:46:48] KM: I think people like to hear that.
[00:46:50] GM: Oh, yeah.
[00:46:50] CM: Syncopation is very cool.
[00:46:53] KM: Mm-hmm.
[00:46:53] GM: Colin, you're giving such better answers than I would. I know all these definitions. But yours are a lot more concise.
[00:46:58] KM: Concise.
[00:46:58] CM: Articulate. Oh, thank you.
[00:47:00] KM: All right. Colin, when you lie in bed – okay, you got an A. Gray you got a B.
[00:47:03] GM: Aha. Yeah. Definitely.
[00:47:08] KM: When you lie in bed and you're dreaming as a child musician getting ready to go up to Juilliard, what did you visualize yourself doing and accomplishing?
[00:47:17] CM: I'm very goal-oriented but in like pretty, I think, short-term ways. Like, "I got to do complete Bach next year." I guess getting a job at a cool Episcopal church that does neat things, and having a good place to live, and having some cute dogs and a pretty lady.
[00:47:41] GM: White picket fence?
[00:47:42] CM: Yeah, maybe.
[00:47:43] GM: So to speak.
[00:47:44] CM: I mean, yeah, during college, I was in New York. And loved New York, too.
[00:47:49] KM: You left out babies.
[00:47:50] GM: Oh, God.
[00:47:51] KM: I'm obsessed with babies. I had four.
[00:47:52] CM: I know. Yes.
[00:47:53] GM: Mom's always on the grandkids.
[00:47:55] KM: I'm always on the grandkids.
[00:47:57] CM: Well, the grandkids are God's reward for not killing your own children.
[00:48:01] GM: That's right.
[00:48:02] KM: I'm telling you, if we have had better birth control when I was young, I wouldn't have the kids I have. Because they were all accidents. But I will say –
[00:48:11] GM: Can't confirm.
[00:48:12] KM: I will say, the grandkids are what make it all worthwhile. It's fantastic. How long do you'd think you will stay in Little Rock?
[00:48:23] CM: Oh, man. I have no plans to go anywhere. We bought house. We love the house. Our dog is a native Arkansan.
[00:48:32] KM: Did you get a brown dog? Arkansas brown dog? What did you get?
[00:48:35] CM: No. He's a mix. He's blonde. He's a blonde German Shepherd.
[00:48:41] KM: Oh, cute. Got a lot of energy, I bet.
[00:48:43] CM: Yeah. He keeps us on our toes. He's too smart.
[00:48:46] KM: Oh, that's good.
[00:48:48] CM: He opens doors.
[00:48:48] KM: Oh. What? Right. What do you want our listeners to take away from this interview?
[00:48:56] CM: I guess some bit of shameless self-promotion. The Bach is a good one. It's not every day you get to hear the complete organ works of Bach. I'm not sure how many people have done that. But I can probably name five people alive now who have done that. And so, I think it's a cool opportunity. If you've got Wednesday afternoons available to you, come by Trinity and treat yourself to a half hour of Bach's organ music.
[00:49:22] KM: And learn to love classical music. Some people grow up loving it. Gray listened to chamber music when he was 14 years old in his bedroom when everybody else was listening to rock.
[00:49:33] GM: But, also, just to piggyback on what Colin was just saying, if you are in Little Rock and you are interested at all in learning a little more about Bach, Colin is probably the best opportunity to hear it in the way that it was meant to be that you'll ever get. You will never hear an organ played like you would if Colin was playing it. It's other – going back to your job interview, I mean, it was kind of next level. When you touched that organ, we were all like, "Whoa." Yeah. Dear listener, it's an opportunity to really hear an instrument that you probably hear all the time but in a way that you've never heard it before."
[00:50:11] KM: I'm going to put it on my calendar. Any tips for advice for budding musicians?
[00:50:17] CM: Practice slowly.
[00:50:18] KM: Really?
[00:50:19] CM: Yeah. Because if you're trying to play something faster than your brain can do it or your brain can comprehend it, it's not good practice. It's probably harmful.
[00:50:28] KM: And one that we learned when Gray was playing piano a little bit was you don't repeat – he would play the thing and hit the mistake and then start over and then hit the mistake. When you hit the mistake, how do you correct yourself on the mistake?
[00:50:45] CM: Slow it down.
[00:50:46] KM: Slow it down and just do it repetitive to get the muscle memory on how to do it right.
[00:50:50] CM: Yeah. And if I were a machine and completely 100% perfectly disciplined, then I would make sure I never practiced faster than it would cause me to play a wrong note. Essentially, perfect practice would mean never making a mistake. Because it would mean you're always doing it slowly and deliberately enough that you don't give yourself the chance to screw up. Obviously, that's unrealistic. And people will make mistakes.
[00:51:21] KM: But your hands are a muscle memory. And if you did the muscle memory wrong, you got to do it right. You got to do it right. You got to do it slow. You got to do it right.
[00:51:27] CM: Yeah. It's all kinds of memory. Muscle memory, visual memory, oral memory, intellectual memory.
[00:51:35] KM: Is that why all musicians are smart? It seems like all of them are.
[00:51:38] GM: I don't know if all of them are.
[00:51:40] CM: I think we all are brilliant, geniuses.
[00:51:45] GM: Geez Louise.
[00:51:48] KM: All right. Tell our listeners how to follow you and stay abreast of any upcoming performances. Are you on Facebook?
[00:51:52] CM: I'm on Facebook. It's just my own personal page. But I'll probably accept you as my friend.
[00:51:58] KM: And MacKnight is not spelled typical. Spell MacKnight.
[00:52:01] CM: M-A-C-K-N-I-G-H-T.
[00:52:06] KM: And then colinmacknight.com?
[00:52:08] CM: Mm-hmm. Colin with one L.
[00:52:10] KM: And if you want to book you, can they go to that website and get Karen McFarlane's Art name?
[00:52:15] CM: Yeah. It's there somewhere. You can also just go to concertorganists.com, I think. Or maybe concertorganist.com. It would take you to the website for the whole agency. The agency, it's named after a woman. But it's now run by a gentleman named John McElliott.
[00:52:31] KM: We've been speaking today with the talented organist and music director of Trinity Cathedral in downtown Little Rock, Arkansas, Dr. Colin MacKnight, who is also 6-foot, 5-inches tall. And has a lot about to go on here soon. I want to give you this. I didn't realize you were from Maryland. Before you leave, I want to give you a desk set with the Maryland flag. That's New York, Washington, DC, and Arkansas. Is there anywhere else you lived besides Maryland?
[00:52:53] CM: Massachusetts.
[00:52:55] KM: Gray, when y'all walk out to the store down, get him a Massachusetts. Change out his base. Massachusetts, Maryland and – yeah.
[00:53:03] CM: Oh, you got a quintuple base. Very cool.
[00:53:06] KM: In closing, the show has been recorded in the historic Taborian Hall in downtown Little Rock, Arkansas and made possible by the good works of flagandbanner.com. Mr. Tom Wood, our audio engineer. Mr. Jonathan Hankins, our videographer. Daughter, Miss Meghan Pittman. Production manager and my co-host, Mr. Grady McCoy IV. A.k.a Son Gray.
We'd like to thank you for spending time with us. We hope you've heard or learned something that's been inspiring or enlightening. And that it, whatever it is, will help you up your business, your independence, or your life. I'm Kerry McCoy, and I'll see you next time on Up in Your Business. Until then, be brave and keep it up.
[OUTRO]
[00:53:47] KM: You've been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. For links to resources you heard discussed on today's show, go to flagandbanner.com, select our podcast and choose today's guest. If you'd like to sponsor this show or any show, email me, gray@flagandbanner.com. Kerry's goal is simple, to help you live the American dream.
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