As a business owner, Deutsch uses Piano Kraft to not only serve customers but also the community at large by helping to improve lives through the art of music. Piano Kraft has offered it's continuous support to the growth and development of the historic South Main neighborhood. Like most small businesses it began as a small, relatively unknown store, and has since grown into one of the largest piano stores in Arkansas. In 2013, Piano Kraft added guitars and music accessories to the items it offers.
Deutsch and Piano Kraft supports music through venues across the state such as sponsoring the Hot Springs Musical Festival , the Central Arkansas Library System, the public school systems, local theaters, and Oxford American to name a few. They even sponsor a boat in the annual World Championship Cardboard Boat Races in Heber Springs, winning the event their first year entering and placing in the top three several years in a row.
Deutsch has a philanthropic heart. A few years ago, after the devastating tornados that hit several towns in Arkansas, most notably Mayflower and Vilonia, Piano Kraft partnered with Yamaha Corp. of America to provide musical assistance to schools and churches that lost all of their instruments. This partnership offered free use of digital pianos for a year. A total of 12 pianos valued at $36,000 were shipped to facilities as far as 90 miles from the Little Rock store.
Behind The Scenes
TRANSCRIPT
EPISODE 40
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:03.2] TB: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Be sure to stay tuned till the end of the show to hear how you can get a copy of this program and other helpful documents.
Now, it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:17.6] KC: Thank you Tim, I’m Kerry McCoy and like Tim said, it’s time for me to get up in your business. For the next hour, my guest Richard Deutsch, owner of Piano Kraft in Downtown Little Rock Arkansas and I will be getting up in the business of how Richard started and expanded his small business of what makes a good piano great and how to improve or learn the art of piano playing.
Through our storytelling, you will hear how we maneuvered the path of leadership and entrepreneurship in pursuit of our dreams and we’ll be answering questions giving advice and you can give your advice via phone and email.
My business experience began over 40 years ago when I founded Arkansas Flag and Banner, during the last four decades, Arkansas Flag and Banner has grown and morphed from door to door sales to telemarketing, to mail order and catalog sales and now we rely heavily on the internet.
Each change in sales strategy required a change in the company thinking and procedures. My confidence, leadership knowledge and my company grew. My initial $400 investment now produces nearly four million in annual sales.
Each week on this show, you’ll hear candid conversations between me and my guest about real world experiences on a variety of businesses and topics that I hope you’ll find interesting.
Running a business or organization is, like so many things, it takes persistence, perseverance and patience. I worked part time jobs for nine years before Arkansas Flag and Banner grew enough to support just me. It’s now grown and expanded so much that to operate efficiently, we require, are you ready for this? A purchasing, manufacturing, graphic, shipping, technology, accounting, marketing, sales and customer service department, plus a retail store.
25 people make their living from working at Arkansas Flag and Banner. I hope you’ll take advantage of this unique opportunity to ask questions or share your experience by calling or emailing me and my guest on today’s show.
Before we start, I want to introduce you to the people of the table, we have Tim Bo, an art technician who will be taking your calls and pushing the buttons. Say hello Tim.
[0:02:33.4] TB: Hello Tim.
[0:02:36.4] KC: My guest today is Richard Deutsch, how’d I do?
[0:02:39.6] RD: So close.
[0:02:40.9] KC: So close. Say it right for me.
[0:02:42.7] RD: Deutsch.
[0:02:44.2] KC: Deutsch. I try to make it bigger than it is. Owner of Piano Kraft located on south main in Little Rock Arkansas. His store was one of the corner stone businesses for the revitalization and redevelopment of the historic south main neighborhood.
Like most small businesses, his began as a relatively unknown store. And has since grown into one of the largest piano stores in Arkansas. In 2013, Piano Kraft added guitars and music accessories to its product line. Deutsch is a business owner with the heart of a philanthropist as he uses Piano Kraft to not only sell musical instruments but also to improve the lives of others through the art of music and music philanthropy.
Piano Kraft is a supporter of the Hot Springs Music Festival, the central Arkansas library system, the public school system, local theaters and Oxford American magazine, just to name a few. A few years ago, after the devastating tornadoes that hit several towns in Arkansas, namely Mayflower and Bolonia. Piano Kraft partnered with Yamaha corporation of America to provide musical assistance to schools and churches in need.
It is an honor to welcome to the table. Musician, philanthropist and business owner, Richard Deutsch.
[0:04:03.4] RD: Thank you.
[0:04:04.3] KC: You made a face when I was talking about all you do for everybody. You know, you’re modest.
[0:04:11.1] RD: Yeah, but I also have – well, yeah, I’m modest.
[0:04:15.7] KC: There you go.
[0:04:16.7] RD: We’ll go with that, everybody knows me is laughing right now but –
[0:04:20.6] KC: You're modest with a big personality.
[0:04:22.9] RD: Thank you.
[0:04:23.5] KC: That’s what it is. You believe in the power of music and healing, why is that so?
[0:04:27.5] RD: Because it’s fact, I believe in the power of music and education also which is even more important. Which is why we do the programs that we do like with the central Arkansas library systems, Arkansas sounds that it’s actually the largest concert program of its kind in the United States.
[0:04:43.4] KC: Right here in Arkansas?
[0:04:44.7] RD: Yeah, we’ve been doing it for three years now which is, lots of library systems have concerts at their main library and at a regular basis to bring the arts in but we actually take an $80,000 piano to each one of the local libraries.
[0:04:59.0] KC: How many is that?
[0:05:00.4] RD: Well they have 16, we do 10 a year.
[0:05:02.9] KC: You take a piano there.
[0:05:05.1] RD: An $80,000 semi concert grand.
[0:05:07.4] KC: And leave it?
[0:05:09.1] RD: We’ll take it for the concert that night and bring it back.
[0:05:11.6] KC: Do you know how hard it is to move a piano?
[0:05:13.5] RD: Just to rent that piano is $2,500 a day but when it’s an $80,000 piano, you have the issues of damage insurance and things.
[0:05:20.9] KC: I was about to say.
[0:05:21.4] RD: That is being – we’re allowed to do that because of the help that we get from the Kawai who is the manufacturer of the piano.
[0:05:27.7] KC: You do a lot of partnerships with manufacturers, don’t you?
[0:05:30.2] RD: Well, they allow me to use that semi concert grand for this program because otherwise they would be a little upset if I was carting around an $80,000 piano.
[00:05:36.3] KC: That’s important part of your business is working with your suppliers to do co-op work in your state.
[0:05:46.3] RD: As best as possible, it’s very difficult for manufacturers to do as much as that in our business, in the piano business because there’s not enough business. Today, there are just as many, well, let’s put it this way. In 1920, the population of the United States was at a certain amount, and we sold a certain amount of pianos.
Today, we sell half the amount of pianos we sold in 1920, the other half is sold in digital pianos. We’re still selling the exact same amount of units between electronic pianos and acoustic pianos but we have three times the population.
[0:06:20.1] KC: That’s because of the TV’s.
[0:06:22.6] RD: Well, that because of the TV and because music is not important in our education as much as it should be.
[0:06:28.2] KC: I love the idea when you watch the old movies where they sat around in the piano room and everybody visited and talked and got up and shared their not professional but just their gifts with each other and it was just so civilized.
[0:06:44.7] RD: People are amazed when their great grandfather that may still be alive that are in the 90’s, will walk by a piano and be able to play something, they’re like, we didn’t know you could play piano because most people in that age group took piano lessons.
[0:06:58.3] KC: Really?
[0:06:58.7] RD: Pianos were not, pianos were in every home, old uprights, you name it. Because that was the entertainment, they had radio, barely.
[0:07:08.8] KC: Barely.
[0:07:08.7] RD: Before that in the 1800. They had home entertainment, piano, education.
[0:07:16.5] KC: Why do you think a piano and education go hand in hand? Are you talking about like math?
[0:07:21.2] RD: Well, music and education.
[0:07:22.3] KC: Are you talking about math skills that go with piano?
[0:07:25.6] RD: Children, it’s a proven fact that children who have taken five years of music lessons or longer graduate in the top 10% of their class, do better in their ACT’s and the SAT’s, are better in their math skills, they have better cognitive thinking and abstract thinking because they use both sides of their mind.
It also helps pay for college. Children who take five years or more usually get more than 50% of their college paid through scholarships.
[0:07:51.0] KC: You mean music scholarships or just general scholarships because they’re smarter?
[0:07:54.6] RD: General scholarships because not necessarily one because they’re smarter but they’re more well-rounded.
[0:07:59.9] KC: And they’re disciplined.
[0:08:01.7] RD: They’re disciplined and music is part of a well-rounded situation. If a child’s got a 4.0 grade point average and another child’s got a 4.0 grade point average or another high school student and they’re trying to apply for a college. The one that has music lessons is going to get that grant or scholarship before the one that doesn’t.
[0:08:18.8] KC: I never thought of it like that. You also believe in the power of healing through music and you gave, you did a lot for the tornado victims in communities in Vilonia Mayflower. Talk about that.
[0:08:28.2] RD: We try to be the best we could, we actually had a lot of problems with the media to get that out.
[0:08:33.5] KC: Why?
[0:08:35.1] RD: We only got one station to carry it, that was channel 11.
[0:08:38.3] KC: They only want to talk about this bad stuff and that’s humans fault because humans only want to hear that.
[0:08:42.9] RD: Actually, the company that was doing the marketing over there, you know, to get the information out was calling me going, what is wrong with these people in Arkansas, this is perfect timing, it’s a feel-good story, it’s great information and I got them in the log cabin out of Conway.
[0:08:59.6] KC: Conway.
[0:09:01.5] RD: They actually didn’t do it, run to the story until three weeks after it, three weeks later.
[0:09:06.1] KC: Well, I think that speaks to the human nature, we just like gossip and negative stories you know? I hate to say that. I’m sure that they’re in the business of knowing what people want to hear but I agree, that would have been a lovely story to get the word out.
When I came in and met you, I just met you a few weeks ago and when I came in, I heard you play effortlessly on a piano in your store while you were selling.
[0:09:32.5] RD: I am not a musician.
[0:09:34.7] KC: You are not a musician? How could you play so good and with so much passion?
[0:09:37.2] RD: Because I’ve been in this business for 30 years and I play music that I like but I play to sell. I just burst your bubble, I know.
[0:09:45.4] KC: Matthew, you and I heard him play, would you think he’s not a musician?
[0:09:50.2] Matthew: He’s good.
[0:09:50.8] KC: He was good.
[0:09:51.6] RD: To people who play, I’m not a player. The people who don’t – yeah. To people who don’t play, I’m a player but I would never sit down with a group of musicians and say, come on, let’s have a –
[0:10:05.0] KC: Well that was my next question, why are you selling musical instruments and not performing them? It’s because you don’t think you’re good enough to perform with musicians.
[0:10:12.0] RD: I’m not.
[0:10:13.3] KC: How did you even think –
[0:10:13.0] RD: It’s not I don’t think, I’m not.
[0:10:13.9] KC: How did you even get in the business of the piano?
[0:10:16.4] RD: I sold shoes.
[0:10:18.0] KC: I did too one time but that doesn’t have anything to do with pianos or flags.
[0:10:23.5] RD: No, I was working in a mall in Austin Texas and a gentleman came in and I was playing with this little Casio calculator that looked like a piano. He happened to work at the Laurie Organ Center across the corner in the mall and for I don’t know, two months, he kept trying to get me to go to work for him because he was opening up a new location and he wanted sales people.
Finally, just walked in and he asked me how much I made and I told him I made 2,000 a month which was about $500 more a month than I was actually making and he said okay, I’ll guarantee you twice what you make for six months if you come to work for me in writing.
Well, let’s see, young, single, stupid, money, dating, yeah, I’m good. I left working for shoes and started selling organs.
[0:11:09.1] KC: You have just given the biggest tip to our young listeners. You never know who is watching, that’s what Skip Ratherford said a couple of months ago, you never – when he was on the show a couple of weeks ago, you never know who is watching so always do a good job, you never know where your next job’s coming from.
I have a friend who was working at Grady’s Pizza Parlor who is making six figures now and he was a waiter at Grady’s Pizza Parlor and one of his customers said, you are a top notch guy, come to work for me and he did and he went through the ranks all the way up in this company.
Anybody listening young out there, just take a job and do it good and you never know where it’s going to lead. This is a great place to take a break. When we come back, we’re going to talk more about Richard’s store Piano Kraft. We’re going to learn about pianos, their different styles and what makes a good piano great. Last, we’ll get helpful tips from this expert on how to improve or learn the art of piano playing. He’s frowning over there.
You’ve got to know, you sell them, you’ve got to know. You’re listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. You’re listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, I’m speaking today with Richard Deutsch, owner of Piano Kraft, how’d I do Richard?
[0:12:32.7] RD: Much better.
[0:12:32.8] KC: Did I say it right? I don’t know why that’s so hard for me, I’m like, impaired. Richard, you moved here from Dallas Texas, when, why, and was Piano Kraft founded in Dallas or founded in Little Rock?
[0:12:44.8] RD: Actually, Piano Kraft was founded in Little Rock by my ex-partner.
[0:12:48.9] KC: Really?
[0:12:49.9] RD: He was very close to not being open any longer and just tapped and things were working in certain ways in Dallas, I had things going on there and it just looked like a great opportunity so I bought into the company. Then four years later, I bought him out.
[0:13:04.8] KC: You learned to sell pianos in Dallas?
[0:13:06.8] RD: No, learned to sell pianos in Austin.
[0:13:08.9] KC: I mean Austin. That’s right, you said Austin, you were working in a mall selling shoes in Austin, you learned to sell them in Austin and then how did you end up in Dallas?
[0:13:17.1] RD: When I left that company after a few years, I had moved to a couple of different places. Went back to Dallas where my family was.
[0:13:26.2] KC: Your mother and father?
[0:13:27.2] RD: Mother and sister lived, my dad lived there and started working in –
[0:13:31.8] KC: In another piano store?
[0:13:33.1] RD: No, actually yes, in a piano store that I only worked there about 30 days because they had no clue.
[0:13:39.3] KC: Bad owner. Yeah, bad management.
[0:13:41.6] RD: Then started working selling tote the note cars. I found out people have more money than they actually tell you they have.
[0:13:47.7] KC: Tote the note cars. If I ever open a used car lot, I am going to steal that.
[0:13:52.7] RD: That’s what it is, they call it tote the notes in Dallas and –
[0:13:56.0] KC: You're a used car salesman?
[0:13:56.8] RD: The lady who owned the place literally, it was the most educational thing I can say that you learn about people but I would never want to do it for a living. But the owner of it, the lady wanted a little white and gold piano and I knew that the manufacturer that I was once selling in Austin, the rep lived in Dallas so I gave him a call and he told me that he had a job for me in the piano business and then I eventually became president of that company which is called Dallas Piano Warehouse.
[0:14:26.1] KC: What’s a white and gold piano? The color white and gold?
[0:14:28.0] RD: Yeah, white like a Louie the 14th looked.
[0:14:30.8] KC: How adorable, I want one of those. Is it a spinet?
[0:14:33.8] RD: No, it was a baby grand.
[0:14:35.1] KC: I love that. You moved with – then you end up moving to Little Rock.
[0:14:39.0] RD: Yeah, after 20 years, I moved to Little Rock 13 years ago, 14 years ago.
[0:14:43.8] KC: Why did you pick Little Rock?
[0:14:44.6] RD: Because the opportunity for my – first of all, my in laws lived in toward Morrilton and we.
[0:14:50.0] KC: Okay, in Arkansas.
[0:14:50.8] RD: Come up here to visit and I met the gentleman at a show and Dallas at the teacher’s convention and I told him I just dropped by, he sold some of the same products that we sold in Dallas and the store in Dallas, we were one of the largest stores in the United States piano wise.
Stop by, you never know who can help each other and he actually offered me a job and I said, well that’s really nice of you but you can’t afford me. I ended up buying the company so –
[0:15:18.4] KC: Networking.
[0:15:19.7] RD: Well, he was 90 days from closing. He was done borrowing all the money and doing everything he could and this thing I did notice in Little Rock is that when I was in Dallas, we had a lot of customers in Little Rock that would come to Dallas and buy pianos.
The reason why is everybody here sold almost retail. They never advertised much, they didn’t take advantage of buying discounts and they could literally buy it in Dallas cheaper and have it delivered here with paying the delivery than they could buy it here locally.
[0:15:47.5] KC: Your connections made Piano Kraft successful too?
[0:15:50.8] RD: Yeah, I was also in manufacturing at one time in the wholesale side. I have the experience on wholesale and retail.
[0:15:57.7] KC: Was it already on Main Street?
[0:15:59.5] RD: Yes. Store has been on Main Street, it opened on Main Street.
[0:16:02.7] KC: What would you say Piano Kraft does best? Sell?
[0:16:05.0] RD: Well, we service and take care of our customers and we have the huge selection.
[0:16:10.2] KC: You sell new and pre-owned?
[0:16:11.4] RD: Yes. I’ve got a hundred pianos in stock right now.
[0:16:14.1] KC: No you do not.
[0:16:14.5] RD: Yes, which we are trying to get down to about 70 so we’re having a clearance or an inventory reduction sale because we’re actually reducing the size of our store 1,400 square feet.
[0:16:24.9] KC: Where are you keeping all of those pianos?
[0:16:26.2] RD: Well, you know, when you walked in, the grand room has over 30 grands in it.
[0:16:30.3] KC: It did?
[0:16:30.8] RD: Yeah.
[0:16:31.1] KC: When you look at your website, you can see this long, it didn’t feel like it’s as long as it is with as many pianos in there.
[0:16:38.8] RD: Yeah, that’s 30 grands in there or 28 grands and right now, the store’s 7,000 square feet and we’re reducing it down to 5,400 that will still be a huge piano store.
[0:16:49.1] KC: Now you’re selling guitars.
[0:16:51.6] RD: We’re selling guitars and we’re also doing band and orchestra rentals and repair. In fact, I just got back from Tampa Florida to do a training for repair on band and orchestra instruments. That’s a new thing that we started this year.
[0:17:03.8] KC: Do you repair pianos too?
[0:17:05.3] RD: Yes, we’re full.
[0:17:05.8] KC: You do?
[0:17:06.6] RD: Yes, I do not tune, I can fix but those who can learn, those who can’t teach, I have no patience so I do not, I can do the repairs but I let my technicians do them. I will walk them through things if they come to a stopping point because of 30 years of experience.
[0:17:23.8] KC: Are they contract labor or do you have actual employees?
[0:17:25.2] RD: Only employees.
[0:17:26.6] KC: How many employees do you have?
[0:17:27.9] RD: Two and a half.
[0:17:30.7] KC: One of them is your wife?
[0:17:31.7] RD: She’s not employed. Actually, we have two technicians, one of them is part time and then we have two movers and me and my wife.
[0:17:44.0] KC: When I was in your store, you showed me a piano that you were in love with, do you know which one I’m talking about?
[0:17:49.8] RD: The 1874 Kanavi.
[0:17:52.7] KC: Tell our listeners about it.
[0:17:54.9] RD: This piano is a one of a kind instrument, it was built in 1874, it was built for the Centennial World’s Fair which was celebrating the 100th anniversary of our great nation. It was held in Philadelphia. It is a 10 foot two rosewood art case piano which means it has all four masters carved along the outside of the instrument.
[0:18:17.7] KC: Would you say it’s – what means it has four masters?
[0:18:21.1] RD: It has the master switches which is Bach, Beethoven, Mozart and Showcon. Or Chopin if you order filet mignon’s.
[0:18:27.2] KC: Okay.
[0:18:29.9] RD: Those are the four masters in pianos.
[0:18:31.7] KC: He was being funny you all, okay, go ahead.
[0:18:35.6] RD: They’re carved on the outside of the piano and it’s just got some beautiful scroll work, it says hand painted florets on the cast iron plate inside.
[0:18:43.6] KC: Who’s going to buy that? 10 feet long.
[0:18:46.9] RD: Somebody who loves antiques and loves American history. What makes this piano even more unique is according to the Boston Globe, and we haven’t been able to verify this other than the article in the Boston Globe.
According to the Boston Globe. President Chester Arthur who is our 21st president had selected the Kanabi rosewood art case concert grand featured at the Centennial World’s Fair as is presidential piano. If we could get some verification of that from the Whitehouse which takes a senator or congressman to get somebody to go look something up there. The piano’s value would be a lot higher.
[0:19:15.1] KC: What do you think it would be?
[0:19:16.6] RD: Between 250 and 700,000. Right now the piano is 150,000.
[0:19:20.9] KC: Soul’s Bee, how do you say that? Auction house?
[0:19:24.1] RD: Sotherby’s?
[0:19:25.1] KC: Sotherby’s.
[0:19:25.7] RD: Yeah, Sotherby’s or Christy’s would sell it on –
[0:19:29.4] KC: Can they help you find out the –
[0:19:30.4] RD: No, they’re not going to do that. We could pay somebody at the Smithsonian but that’s really hard to do because they charge you like, not at Smithsonian but people would go in, if they don’t know the piano industry and what to look for at $400 an hour, I’m not paying somebody to do that.
[0:19:44.5] KC: Well, who is your congressman, you need to get somebody.
[0:19:47.7] TB: French Hill, we’re friends with him right?
[0:19:49.2] KC: Yeah, we need to call up a French.
[0:19:51.7] RD: There you go, the him on the phone.
[0:19:53.4] KC: You seriously should, he is so helpful at everything.
[0:19:56.4] RD: That’s the only way, because I called the different departments that they put me in to and first one they put me in to is the gift and gift does not give you any information at all. They just say, we can’t give you information and actually it’s a recording.
Back in that time when gifts were given to presidents, they didn’t get stored, they took them with them. Now we have a White House piano so you're not getting as the presidential, it’s the White House piano not the presidential piano.
[0:20:25.1] KC: Do you teach lessons at your place?
[0:20:25.9] RD: We do have lessons, we’re in between teachers right now, our teacher moved on for piano but we do also teach guitar.
[0:20:31.4] KC: Those people are contract I bet?
[0:20:33.1] RD: Yes, because the laws of Arkansas state that if we collect money and pay them even though it’s just for studio rental, we have to pay worker’s comp. It doesn’t make sense.
[0:20:46.6] KC: Any piano teachers out there that need a home to teach lessons.
[0:20:50.2] RD: Come see me.
[0:20:50.4] KC: Come see Piano Kraft richard@pianokraft. There’s different types of pianos, I’ve earned three of these five pianos, I’ve owned an upright, a spinet and a baby grand but there’s also the big grand and the electric. Do you have a preference?
[0:21:07.7] RD: It depends on what the use is for. I love acoustic pianos which is your standard piano, whether it be a grand or an upright, there’s your two types and then this term spinet or console describes height.
[0:21:20.6] KC: Is that what that means?
[0:21:22.0] RD: Anything that’s a grand or baby grand, they’re all grand pianos but the term baby grand, parlor grand is describing length, concert grand, that type of thing. Obviously the bigger on acoustic pianos, the bigger the piano, the better it sounds. It’s a difference between an eight-inch speaker and a 15-inch speaker.
You have more tone coming out. And then of course the better the quality, the difference between a Kmart brand speaker and a Boss sound system. That makes a huge difference in the tonal quality of the instrument.
[0:21:53.1] KC: I don’t like the way spinets sound.
[0:21:54.0] RD: No, the strings are very short.
[0:21:55.8] KC: They’re twangy.
[0:21:56.6] RD: that’s because most of them are over 30 years old and nobody took care of them.
[0:21:59.1] KC: They’re tinny. Then I love the way an upright sound, it’s real thick, I’m not really sure what – do you know what I’m saying?
[0:22:07.0] RD: That depends on which one you play, if it’s been one that’s taken care of, then it’s going to play well and tone is – the tone of the piano is purely subjective.
[0:22:16.8] KC: Yeah.
[0:22:16.7] RD: Some people like a really bright tone, some people like a mellow tone or a darker tone, that’s personal preference, there is no right or wrong. You know, quality, there’s a lot of great instruments out there, 70% of pianos today are built in China.
[0:22:34.5] KC: Seems like that would be cost prohibitive to ship it over here.
[0:22:36.8] RD: No, because China, it’s not only because of the price of labor but it’s also because China’s the largest market in the world for pianos.
[0:22:44.2] KC: Really?
[0:22:44.9] RD: Look at all the people and they all are starting to make more and more money.
[0:22:50.6] KC: Then there’s the Suzuki form of.
[0:22:53.3] RD: That’s a teaching method and it’s a group lesson that starts with different styles, there’s – a teacher should… Parents select teachers by their comfort a little bit, they’re interviewing somebody for a job. A teacher teaches music, I teach people about pianos.
I would never tell a teacher how to teach piano and teachers don’t normally know a whole lot about pianos, they know what they like.
[0:23:26.9] KC: They know the tone they like.
[0:23:28.2] RD: They know the tone they like, they know the feel they like. Or they’re just used to a brand name they like.
[0:23:32.5] KC: What is the history of the piano. A lot of people don’t realize that it is a harp on its side basically.
[0:23:37.4] RD: Yeah, it started as a harpsichord.
[0:23:39.0] KC: It’s a string instrument.
[0:23:41.2] RD: Actually yes and no, it’s a string and percussion.
[0:23:44.6] KC: Okay.
[0:23:45.4] RD: Actually – originally it was a harpsichord where it was actually plucking the strings and then later on, Chris Flory who invented the piano over 300 years ago created a striking motion where it struck the string, thus the piano. Piano Forte.
[0:24:01.0] KC: What countries are you from?
[0:24:03.3] RD: Italy.
[0:24:04.5] KC: I was in Washington DC one time and I was walking through a mall, I think it was the Kennedy Center and they had a girl playing the piano, I don’t guess it’s a mall but it was the Kennedy Center and they had a girl out in the lobby playing the piano, she was standing on the bench, reaching inside her grand piano and plucking the strings and it was beautiful.
[0:24:27.7] RD: That is – people have come up with some great unique things that they do with instruments, that is very bad, your oil on your skin’s really bad on brass strings. It actually deteriorates it but yes, there’s a lot of people who do that. In fact, my uncle who is a Professor of Music at the University of England, he actually started the doctorial program of how to write music for film and television, he’s a guest lecturer on the National Film Institute.
He decided that he was going to start doing – composing of just piano and he had a 30 year old keyboard that was not up to his par. He contacted me, we ended up finding an instrument that he is just in love with, a digital piano called a Kawai and it’s their hybrid and it actually has a real sound board on it so it gives tone besides just speakers, it sounds more realistic.
He was telling me that he has a program that he uses that is designed to pretend like it’s plucking strings as a piano and things like that, it’s recorded all these tones so that you can use them for unique things.
I thought his statement was kind of interesting. If they want to play a harp, they should get a harp, if they want to play a piano, they should get a piano, and I was like my god.
[0:25:39.5] KC: How simple and yet how perfect? Before we go to break, I got one quick question for you. Big buck stores like the Guitar Center have deep pockets and often build industry awareness through their marketing and advertising thus growing your customer base. Sometimes they can hurt sales by taking market shares, do you have an opinion on these types of corporate stores?
[0:26:00.8] RD: Well, first of all, Guitar Center is an American history store.
[0:26:06.3] KC: Really?
[0:26:07.0] RD: Yes it is. Guitar Center started as a piano and organ store, later on it was bought or it was taken over after the man who started the guitar – it wasn’t guitar center at the time but passed away and a guy named Ray Sheers took it over. Kind of looked like a big giant Italian mafia.
They took that store and they grew it and they grew it. Then when they got to a certain point, they had to get more knowledge. It got so big for Ray Sheers, he just didn’t have the knowledge how to run it but he was smart enough to get people to run it.
It grew and through investments and it is a big buck store and yes, they have buying power but don’t be afraid to do business with them, I’d rather you do business with me but you have to be – I would love to be able to grow and get to that point and that’s what they did, they threw perseverance, talent so I have nothing I could tell you bad about Guitar Center other than that it is a big box experience. You don’t get as close as the service, personalized service.
[0:27:03.3] KM: You have to wait in line to get help.
[0:27:05.4] RD: Well sometimes you have to in my store, I am the only person there and I am maybe working two or three people at once but it just seems like in our store, if somebody comes in I can sit there all day and do absolutely nothing. Somebody will come in so will two others.
[0:27:19.1] KM: Your comments were so gracious and I appreciate them so much of what you said about your competitor and sharing that story. What state did they start in?
[0:27:27.4] RD: They started out in California. I am not afraid of competition. Competition is what brings me business and people want a good price but they also want good service. Guitar Center in the other side with the guitar side and piano, music stores are divided. They have what’s called a combo or band of instrument stores then you have the guitar stores or what they call full line stores and then you have piano stores.
The piano stores at one time were kind of this elitist guys that we only hang out in one floor of the national shows called The National Association of Music Merchants. All the pianos were on the third floor, those were all the suit and ties went and everybody else was below them and it’s not that way anymore but Guitar Center does control and have great impact on the freighting industry business and the mini keyboard business.
People can compete, when I was in Dallas a store I worked for a short time was a block and a half down from Guitar Center selling keyboards, pro keyboards and we would outsell them. Not only were we selling the same product but we’d sell it for more money.
[0:28:37.9] KM: Right the price is not the only reason why people shop.
[0:28:41.3] RD: It’s not the only thing that people buy, they bought because we offered them a package. So they get a great value that they weren’t getting offered at the other place.
[0:28:48.4] KM: And great service.
[0:28:49.9] RD: And we were literary a block and a half down.
[0:28:51.8] KM: That’s a great story.
[0:28:53.2] RD: So it’s not about the big bucks. It’s about the customer service.
[0:28:56.7] KM: It really is. I say that to people all the time at Arkansas Flag and Banner, don’t I Tim?
[0:29:00.5] RD: But we’ll never ask my employees to drop something off on the way home.
[0:29:03.8] KM: What does that mean?
[0:29:05.2] RD: Sorry, that was a dig while we’re at work.
[0:29:07.2] KM: Well you can’t drop off. Hey drop this piano off.
[0:29:10.0] RD: Did you not hear the news that Walmart was asking their employees to drop groceries off on their way home.
[0:29:15.0] KM: Oh, no that went right over my head. I didn’t hear that news. Thanks for explaining it to me.
[0:29:20.0] TB: We actually do that at Flag and Banner.
[0:29:22.3] KM: We do that all the time, yeah and I was getting knocked.
[0:29:26.3] RD: We actually do it too but –
[0:29:29.0] KM: Alright, let’s take a break. When we come back, we’re going to get helpful tips from Richard on improving your piano playing and best practices for learning to play the piano. If he knows any, I’m sure he does, he’s had a lot of experience. We’ll also have Richard tell us about some of his favorite community music projects he has worked on. You are listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy on KABF Radio. My guest is Richard Deutsch. God I’m so close. Oh I did say “Toych” didn’t I, gosh.
[0:29:57.3] RD: But you are doing better.
[0:29:58.8] KM: Richard Deutsch owner of Piano Kraft in downtown Little Rock, Arkansas.
[BREAK]
[0:30:17.8] KM: I’m Kerry McCoy. I am speaking today with Richard Deutsch, owner of Piano Kraft. He’s applauding my diction. Finally I got it right. You know I’m Kraust. My maiden name is Kraust. My father was German, you’d think I’d be better at pronouncing your name. You’ve been playing the piano, playing the piano is hard. Before I ask you this question, I want everybody to know that with heart and soul that we just listened to and Richard during the break told us the funniest story. You want to tell it again?
[0:30:46.5] RD: Do you want to finish here?
[0:30:47.9] KM: No.
[0:30:48.8] RD: Oh darn, okay worth the shot.
[0:30:50.2] KM: So he hates Heart and Soul. He is so sick of it, how about that?
[0:30:55.1] RD: If you’ve ever watched the Blues Brothers, there is a sign that says “No Stairway to Heaven” in the guitar story because every guitar story is sick of hearing Stairway to Heaven played wrong or in the wrong key. Well in piano stores, it’s Heart and Soul and Fur Elise. Anyways, we would do, when I was in Dallas we worked at the State Fair. We would just be out there 24 days in a booth and sell pianos and digital pianos and we would put a sign on the piano that said on our acoustic note said, “Eight coupons per play” which that would help the kids from just pounding on the piano. You know you’ve got to pay.
[0:31:33.6] KM: You’ve got to pay eight coupons and coupons could be reimbursed for food.
[0:31:37.4] RD: Yeah but it said, “No Fur Elise. No Heart and Soul, 16 coupon fine” and one day this lady who comes by looks at it, she just starts laughing and she thought it was a funniest thing because she was a classical pianist professional and she said, “Now I have to play it” and I said, “Well no” she says, “But I know the whole thing” all like 12 or 14 minutes of it and I was like, “No” and she goes, “Why?” and I said, “Because we’re here to sell pianos. If you play for 12 or 14 minutes nobody will let me show them plus you haven’t given me any of the coupons”.
And she goes, “Well okay, so I’d give you 16 coupons?” I said, “No 24 because it’s eight coupons to play but there is a 16 coupon fine if you play one of those two songs, that’s 24” and she’s like, “why?” I said, “Because if get to hear that song we need to drink and if we need to drink, they’re 12 coupons for a beer and there is two of us in the booth” and she showed up at about 15 minutes to 10:00 before it was closing and she played the entire piece and bought us two beers so it was not a bad deal.
[0:32:42.6] KM: That’s a great story. Playing the piano is hard. Do you think anybody can learn?
[0:32:46.7] RD: Anybody can play piano.
[0:32:48.5] KM: I don’t know about that.
[0:32:50.4] RD: If you have two fingers you can play piano or play digital piano.
[0:32:53.8] KM: You just may not play well.
[0:32:55.0] RD: Well here’s the thing, what’s well? As long as you are enjoying it, who cares?
[0:32:59.2] KM: Is there a right age to start?
[0:33:01.9] RD: Yes.
[0:33:02.8] KM: When?
[0:33:03.6] RD: When you’re child is mentally capable of sitting through a 30 minute lesson and focusing which is anywhere between the ages of four and six, four to seven because four is a little on the young side. Most teachers will prefer about five. The Suzuki Method takes them that young but most teachers want to see if a child is capable of focusing and then of course, when the child takes lessons the worst thing a parent could do is say, “You didn’t do your homework. Go practice the piano an extra 20 minutes”.
You just made your musical instrument a punishment. It has to be a positive thing and the teacher has to be a positive influence on the student. If you want your child to go through full classical style training, find a teacher that does it but also I had a lady come in one time – well she is pushing the mike in front of my face, sorry. I had a lady come in one time and she told me that she wanted to give her child piano lessons but she wanted her to be taught gospel.
And she had gone through three or four piano teachers, all of them taught gospel but her daughter hated it and when she came to me, she told me and I said, “Well I have a teacher that is very, very good at gospel and especially Black gospel and he plays the organ and everything so it will work out fantastically” so that’s great. So she brings her daughter in and I ask her daughter, “So what kind of music do you want to learn?” and she goes, “Classical”.
And I said, “Well here’s the good news, we’re going to teach you classical piano here. We’re not going to force you to play gospel” and I thought her mother was going to – her eyes just got really big and I thought she was going to just kill me right then and I said, “And here’s the greatest news, you are going to learn to play the piano because you are in love learning to play and then maybe a year from now or six months from now, you will learn a gospel song for your mom”.
[0:34:56.5] KM: Oh that’s a great story.
[0:34:58.8] RD: And the fact of the matter is that her mother finally figured out, I want her to learn music. It doesn’t have to be gospel. It has to be music and then let her path take her on her path.
[0:35:09.2] KM: How old is this girl?
[0:35:10.8] RD: She was 12.
[0:35:12.5] KM: She knew what classical was and what she wanted.
[0:35:15.5] RD: Yeah and then she ended up really liking jazz. She took lessons through this teacher at that time about three years and she came every week. She smiled and practiced and she enjoyed practicing because she was practicing something that she wanted to learn. Well I don’t have a short story but the bottom line I guess is that children need to have incentive. If their incentive is because they want to learn something from Green Day which is Journey or whatever.
If the teacher doesn’t give them opportunities or work that into their programs, it takes away from their want to do it and if they have to go home and play piano on an old piece of junk upright that won’t hold a tune, that doesn’t give them an incentive to want to learn.
[0:35:59.6] KM: That was going to be my next question. So you could come down there and take piano lessons from you but what if you don’t have the money to have a piano at your house, what do you do?
[0:36:08.4] RD: Well a lot of churches have pianos, you can go practice there. The thing is you have to practice. A child or anybody should practice a minimum of 20 minutes a day. 20 minutes a day practice. A teacher can only guide a student and they guide them to make them practice to learn new things so they can help them to the next step. That’s what a teacher does, they are a guidance system.
[0:36:29.8] KM: So all my children took lessons and didn’t like to practice. They didn’t mind the lessons, they didn’t mind learning music but they didn’t like to practice.
[0:36:39.9] RD: And if they don’t practice and one reason is because there were songs they didn’t like. You have to go through certain basics. There are certain basics you have to learn no matter what. You know Ode to Joy because it is teaching fingering, its teaching right placement of hands, getting your hands used to where they need to be. So there are basics that have to be done but there are songs out there that also meet those basics that are more enjoyable.
[0:37:04.4] KM: Yeah, that can speak to that child whatever it is.
[0:37:06.7] RD: That’s right and if you got a seven or nine year old that’s just getting into lessons and they are already listening to pop music, the last thing they want to play is Ode to Joy. Now they will because they are getting a start and if the family treats music as education, you never have the problem of “I don’t want to take piano lessons today” or “I don’t want to take my violin” because if a child comes home and goes, “Mom, dad, I don’t like my English teacher. I’m not taking it anymore”.
The answer is, “That’s funny and if you get less than a B we’re going to talk about what you’re thinking” you know? Most parents are, “you don’t have a choice”. Music in other countries is not a choice.
[0:37:46.8] KM: Does the hand size matter? I mean little kids type?
[0:37:50.3] RD: Yeah.
[0:37:50.5] KM: But if you are classical, professional you’ve got to have, be able to have – your fingers have to be able to stretch from certain to certain right?
[0:37:59.9] RD: Well it helps you play different styles but it doesn’t stop you from being a good pianist. What’s the name of the group? Anyways, the keyboard has a 13th reach which is like an octave and a half and he plays the song that has this reach. Well if you want to play the way that he plays it, you’ve got to have big hands but if you want to play it and still enjoy the music, you don’t have to hit that particular note. You can hit it at a lesser note.
[0:38:28.1] KM: So let’s say you already play the piano. You know I am getting inspired, I want to get my grandson. I think he would love the piano. He’s got an engineering mind and he loves math. I think he would probably really like it and he loves pounding on stuff. So he could come down there and learn from you when you got a piano teacher but he’s going to have to practice 20 minutes every day. That’s going to be the hard part for him, sitting still.
[0:38:50.1] RD: But if it’s something he enjoys.
[0:38:52.2] KM: So we won’t know until we try it.
[0:38:54.3] RD: One of the things that also happens is that the reason why the digital pianos have been taking so big is because one, there’s head phones. Two, there’s other sounds. Parents don’t necessarily want their children to be pianists. They want their children to learn music.
[0:39:06.2] KM: Yes, we don’t want him to be – yes, that’s right.
[0:39:10.2] RD: So one thing that has to happen is the children that take the lessons on digital instruments that their teachers work with them on them tend to learn more in a shorter amount of time.
[0:39:20.3] KM: So you are not opposed to using an electronic piano at home?
[0:39:25.5] RD: No because most – a $699.00 keyboard sold by Kawai that we sell, 88 note, feels like a piano, would be a better sound and a better feel and I am talking about a high quality 699 keyboard not one of those little Casio’s okay? They have a better sound and a better feel than a 40 year old Spinet that costs you $500.
[0:39:47.0] KM: And it’s electronic which they like.
[0:39:48.8] RD: It never needs tuning, they can use headphones when they’re not taking their practice time and there’s an incentive. You want to use the other features of it, great use the headphones.
[0:39:56.4] KM: Put the drums behind. Put the drums in.
[0:39:58.1] RD: Yeah, here is the headphone and enjoy it. Do that after your practice time. Now the teacher tells them to use drums with it to learn syncopation and things like that. That’s a totally different story.
[0:40:07.1] KM: So let’s say you are – this is great tips for people out there, if you already play the piano but feel you are stuck in your progression, do you have tip for breaking through the block?
[0:40:16.5] RD: Find a teacher if you don’t have one and there are teachers out there that will work with you. They don’t necessarily take you back to square one. They realized that hey, you are wanting to play the piano for yourself and you’re wanting to learn new riffs or different things and help you move to a different section. We had a gentleman that took lessons in our store that the only thing he wanted to learn was the intro to every rock song ever made.
He is a drummer and he actually owns a guitar teaching studio but he came to lessons and that’s all he wanted to learn is how to play the opening to every song.
[0:40:50.5] KM: And you weren’t opposed to that?
[0:40:51.7] RD: I’d be – the teachers rent studio from us.
[0:40:55.4] KM: Yeah, whatever.
[0:40:57.0] RD: And then people because of our name will call us and we’ll get them in touch with the teacher that we like.
[0:41:01.1] KM: So many professions have continuing education or not even professions but continue your education through all of your life is important so it does make sense to keep doing that with the piano if you like playing the piano. Continue your education by occasionally getting a teacher.
[0:41:16.7] RD: Well if you are trying to learn new things – you know I learn new things because I play at all different times. People say do you have a piano at home and I say no.
[0:41:24.8] KM: Well you don’t need one you’ve got a whole store full of them.
[0:41:26.9] RD: I’ve got a hundred of them and when I go home the last thing I want to do is just play piano because I can relax at work and play piano or I’ll stay late and play piano. I don’t read music. I play out of fake books and I just play for my own enjoyment.
[0:41:41.7] KM: You don’t read music? Do you think that it’s –
[0:41:45.6] RD: Well I can actually tell you what notes, I understand theory but I don’t read music.
[0:41:50.1] KM: So you just play from your ear?
[0:41:51.4] RD: No, I play from a big note song book that writes the letters and they are over 30 years I’ve learned some tricks to the trade.
[0:41:58.4] KM: Oh Richard I love you. You are just humble and confessing and gracious and everything.
[0:42:04.4] RD: I know a guy named Scott Houston that created a program called Play Piano on a Flash. This was on PBS okay, it is the old one finger organ method changed for piano. It’s great and he was in our store doing a seminar one time and he said, “Nobody goes home and says I want to learn the piano, I want to learn a song I have never heard before” nobody does that. Nobody goes, “I think I want to go learn a song I have never heard before”.
So his thing is don’t worry about timing, don’t worry about the theory, play it, enjoy it and if play it, hum it. It doesn’t make a difference. You are not trying to be a professional. You are not out there entertaining.
[0:42:41.9] KM: Well my seven year old like to learn happy birthday, it would probably make his day if he learned that and played it one of the birthday parties he goes.
[0:42:47.8] RD: I think he has to pay the rights for that.
[0:42:49.3] KM: Oh is that right?
[0:42:52.6] RD: We actually had to pay because we run these player systems and we’ll take them to outside markets, we have to pay the generic gas cap to protect and take care of ours. We deserve it.
[0:43:05.3] KM: Talk about muscle memory for your hands.
[0:43:08.8] RD: I am not a doctor.
[0:43:10.0] KM: Well I know that when my kids are playing they would play this note and then they would make a mistake and they would start at the beginning and then they’d play it again and then make a mistake.
[0:43:18.2] RD: That’s the biggest problem in learning now and I understand what you are talking about. Everybody when they make a mistake playing piano, they stop right then and start over thinking that they are going to get past it but what they are really practicing is making a mistake. What they need to do is when they make a mistake, keep playing, work through it. The fingers will find their self but if you just keep stopping every time you make a mistake. Oh darn and then start again, oh darn – all you are doing is perfecting making a mistake.
[0:43:45.9] KM: And I wish I knew that when my kids are playing because I didn’t learn that until the very last child was playing and somebody said they need to slowly go through that and get the muscle memory of how to play it right and then speed it up slowly over and over and I wish I had a realized that tip before. You are listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy and I am speaking today with Richard Deutsch, owner of Piano Kraft.
We got eight minutes left. I want to hear about some of your fund raisers and philanthropy that you have done. You have supported the Hot Springs Musical Festival, the Central Arkansas Library System, the public school system, local theaters, Oxford American Magazine and after the devastating Arkansas tornadoes that went through Mayflower and Bellona, Piano Kraft provided musical assistance to schools and churches. Which one of those do you want to talk about?
[0:44:44.5] RD: Now or after the break?
[0:44:46.0] KM: Now, well we won’t take a break. That was our break, I just told them who you were in case anybody tuned in. Sorry, I was thinking about taking a break but I just really wonder but in case they just tuned in who you were and who we’re speaking with.
[0:44:56.7] RD: Okay. So right now my pet project is the Sounds and the Stacks Program.
[0:45:02.2] KM: And that’s the one you said that was the largest one in America?
[0:45:05.8] RD: This is the largest program according to John Miller, the person from Arkansas Sounds as part of the CAL System. This is the largest music program.
[0:45:14.1] KM: Tell what CAL System is.
[0:45:15.8] RD: Central Arkansas Library System is CALS. Arkansas Sounds is a part of the CAL System. They help do Run Robinson Theater or music selections and things like that. I don’t know, you have to ask them but John and I came up with this program three years ago and this is our third season. We are excited about it. The program brings – my whole idea was to bring quality music to the local libraries, to the local people without charging them.
Doing an hour up front and personal concert where it wasn’t all just music, it was ask the person questions. We actually had kids come up and play at the artists. It was to insight children to want to play and be musically inclined period. We had an unfortunate situation where we had three people show up to the event and Dell Smith who is a local player – I was upset because there weren’t a whole bunch of people there that wasn’t shared well enough.
[0:46:20.6] KM: Yeah, they didn’t do a press release or something?
[0:46:22.5] RD: Well we won’t get into that but the bottom line is I wasn’t really happy about it but the artist that we had hired and he’s known nationally, he’s done different events, different things and he’s known locally that he took this one child and started playing and having him play and press button and press the piano keys and when that child left with his mom, she was like, “It does what for his college education? It will make it so much cheaper?” and saw some.
And that right there made that whole event worthwhile and that’s the thing. We want people to know that one the Central Arkansas Library System is open for more than just books. They have a lot of other programs for the arts and for education. So we’ve supported that for three years and we take an $80,000 piano 99% of the time to 10 of the libraries per year.
[0:47:15.4] KM: So how do people find out about it?
[0:47:17.0] RD: You can go to our website which is pianokraft.com. They can go to the CALS website, Central Arkansas Library Systems and look through Arkansas Sounds and there’s posters and then channel seven is our partner with that and they actually – Ned Purby is going to be doing our next concert which is July 27th I think. I am not sure on that. So check my website. I just got the final bookings on that but he is playing July 27th.
So that is really exciting but he announces it during the 6 O’Clock news when the concerts are going to be the week before.
[0:47:46.3] KM: You just told our listeners to get in touch with you. Is the best way to get in touch with you through your website or to call?
[0:47:51.3] RD: Call. I am old school. I want to talk. So now if you want me to remember, we have to put it down somewhere but other than that, call us, 501-372-1446.
[0:48:01.0] KM: But that’s what your wife’s for. She will put it down for you and put it on your calendar.
[0:48:05.5] RD: You’ve met my wife, you two have a lot in common. Fiery, very stubborn.
[0:48:12.7] KM: Fun. I am not stubborn am I Tim?
[0:48:14.8] TB: Not in the slightest.
[0:48:16.6] RD: No.
[0:48:18.0] KM: Was that sarcasm?
[0:48:19.0] RD: And then I got in trouble when I first met you. I said, “Oh yeah you’re the one that’s crazy”.
[0:48:22.7] KM: Oh yeah actually well we don’t have enough time to say what you really said.
[0:48:29.9] RD: But I appreciate it having me on your show this is a great show and it’s great that people want to hear and listen to different things going on and like some of the 12 step programs, maybe somebody in business was listening out there and something we talked about also.
[0:48:43.0] KM: Wow that was really well said. I am going to thank you Richard. It has been a real pleasure getting to know you.
[0:48:50.6] RD: Thank you.
[0:48:51.1] KM: I really didn’t realize what a cool dude you are. This cigar is for birthing your business and for giving quality of life to so many people through your musical contributions.
[0:49:03.9] RD: Well this is a beautiful cigar.
[0:49:05.5] KM: It is, isn’t it? It came from the Humidor Room at Colonial Wine and Spirits on Malcolm Street in Little Rock Arkansas. Tim who’s my guest next week?
[0:49:13.9] TB: Next week we are going to have all three of the Bruno’s Brothers.
[0:49:18.1] KM: The Bruno Brothers from Little Italy. Thanks again Richard. You’re awesome. If you have a great entrepreneurial story you would like to share, I would love to hear from you. Send a brief bio and your contact info to questions@upyourbusiness.org and someone will be in touch and finally to our listeners, thank you for spending time with me.
If you think this program has been about you, you’re right but it’s also been for me. Thank you for letting me fulfill my destiny. My hope today is that you’ve learned or heard something that’s been inspiring or enlightening and then it, whatever it is will help you up your business, your independence or your life. I am Kerry McCoy and I will see you next time on Up in Your Business. Until then, be brave and keep it up.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:50:02.7] TB: You’ve been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Want to hear today’s program again or want someone else to benefit from it? Jot this down. Next week the podcast will be available at flagandbanner.com. Click the tab labeled “Radio Show”, there you’ll find today’s segment with links to resources you heard discussed on this program. Kerry’s goal: to help you live the American Dream.
[END]
