Up In Your Business is a Radio Show by FlagandBanner.com
EPISODE 166
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:03.2] GM: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of FlagandBanner.com. Through storytelling and conversational interviews, this weekly radio show and podcast offers listeners an insider's view into starting and running a business, the ups and downs of risk taking, and the commonalities of successful people. Connect with Kerry through her candid, often funny and always informative weekly blog. There you'll read, learn, and may comment about her life as a 21st century wife, mother, daughter, and entrepreneur.
And now it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:41.2] KM: Thank you, son. Great. This show began as a calling after four decades of running a small business called Arkansas Flag and Banner, AKA Flagandbanner.com, since 1995. That's a long time ago. I felt I had something to share with other people. I wanted to create a platform for not just me but other business owners and successful people and interesting people to pay forward their experiential knowledge in a conversational way.
Originally, my team and I thought we'd be teaching others, but it didn't take long before we realized the persons learning was us. Listening to our guests has been both educational and inspiring. To quote the Dalai Lama, “When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new.” The act of listening is learning, a Greek philosopher, Diogenes, wrote, “We have two ears and one tongue so that we may listen more.”
After listening to over 150 successful people, I've learned that many of my guests believe in a higher power, have the heart of a teacher and are creative at building their lives and their careers. Before we start, I want to let you know if you miss any part of today's show, you want to hear it again or share it, there’s a way, and Gray will tell you how.
[0:02:01.2] GM: Listen to all UIYB past and present interviews by going to Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy's YouTube channel, Facebook Page, arkansasonline.com, flagandbanner.com's website, or subscribe to our podcast wherever you like to listen by searching Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy. And if you would like to receive timely email notifications, about each week's upcoming guests, go to Flagandbanner.com, click “radio show” and join the email list.
Back to you, Kerry.
[0:02:28.2] KM: Thank you, Gray. It was April the 24th, 2018 that the Arkansas Repertory Theatre shocked the city of Little Rock by announcing it was suspending production, citing financial difficulties. For months, the citizens held their breath and awaited, while a $2.3 million fundraising campaign was launched to save Arkansas's longest running nonprofit theater. 10 months later, in January of 2019 the Arkansas Repertory Theatre announced Mr. William Trice would begin serving at summer's end as its new Executive Artistic Director. A sigh of relief could be heard across the state of Arkansas.
Known by many, Will is an Arkansas native who understands his audience. He is also a big time New York City Broadway producer who has won three Tony Awards and been nominated for five more and just to make him an even more perfect candidate for the job of saving this Arkansas treasure, Trice has prior work experience as a business analyst for the management consulting firm McKinsey & Company.
It is a pleasure to welcome to the table the state's own ambitious, accomplished new Executive Artistic Director of the Arkansas Repertory Theater, Mr. William Trice. Savior!
[0:03:54.2] WT: Oh, my God. You’ve got to stop that now. Thanks for having me.
[0:04:00.2] KM: You're welcome. Thanks for coming. You probably grew up performing in the Arkansas Repertory Theatre.
[0:04:06.2] WT: I — a little bit. Not a lot. Not until, um, high school did I actually ever perform there. The first time was — was actually in the gridiron. My family was involved a lot in the gridiron and a certain point in gridiron’s history, it began to be hosted by The Rep.
[0:04:24.0] KM: And the gridiron is what the Lawyers Association does.
[0:04:027.2] WT: Yeah, it it was put on by the Bar Association to raise money and, you know, just skewer local politicians and judges, and my family was always a big part of that. And so I really grew up just playing backstage and in the storage areas of the building while they were all rehearsing. Actually, when I was in middle school, they had me on Is a little cameo playing Dan Quayle? Yeah, it was during the — that kind of that period — and then on the actual kind of Rep stage when I was in high school, I was in a production of Lost in Yonkers. But that was really my only kind of performance experience there.
[0:05:07.9] KM: I call that growing up in that theater.
[0:05:10.2] WT: Yeah, sure.
[0:05:11.0] KM: Yeah. Uh, so let's speak about your mom and dad. I just met you today better now, about 30 minutes ago. But I know your mom and dad. They have a legacy here in Little Rock Theater
[0:05:22.2] WT: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, very I think active in the in the local theater community, which is is a very thriving community.
[0:05:30.2] KM: Judy tries.
[0:05:31.2] WT: Judy tries.
[0:05:32.2] KM: And you're named after your father, I guess.
[0:05:33.0] WT: Yep. Yeah, I'm Will, he was Bill. He was — he was an attorney, but also kind of very active — avocational performer.
[0:05:43.2] KM: That's why you were in the gridiron, because even attorney? And then your mother's theater.
[0:05:48.2] WT: And then my mother, well, she started out in broadcasting, actually. It was on channel seven here before I was born. She did the weather. She had, like, a noon show. There was, like, a dance party show. At one point, there was a show called the Vic Ames show.
[0:06:02.2] KM: Yeah,
[0:06:03.2] WT: — And she was like the co host of that and would sing on it and stuff. Uhm this was all — yeah, way pre-me. And then I'm she wound up going back to school and became a teacher, and she taught at Hall High School, and she taught drama for a long time.
[0:06:15.2] KM: A drama teacher, not a music teacher.
[0:06:18.2] WT: She taught drama for a long time, and then she moved over to English. And then she retired in the mid 90s but has continued to act in movies and at The Rep and at other theaters in town.
[0:06:31.2] KM: So I met her because of the work that she does at uhm —
[0:06:34.2] WT: — Arkansas Interfaith Conference Choir Camp — yeah.
[0:06:36.2] KM: Choir camp — yes, summer choir camp.
[0:06:38.2] WT: For sure — I grew up going there too.
[0:06:42:2] KM: And that's how I met your mother because she was always I think she was always playing the piano. Your mother's in theater, but you did not look like to me that you went to school for theater.
[0:06:52.2] WT: No —
[0:06:55.0] KM: — but you go to you into Southern Methodists and Northwestern University. What did you study?
[0:06:57.2] WT: In undergrad I studied Music —
[0:06:59.2] KM: Oh you did?
[0:07:00.2] WT: It was a business minor. And also a theatre minor. I guess.
[0:07:04.2] KM: So, you did study —
[0:07:05.2] WT: Yeah, but then, right —
[0:07:06.2] KM: Aren’t those right and left brains — I'm not getting that.
[0:07:10.2] WT: That's the fun part. It's kind of going back and forth between the two. But I didn't go into it at all into the arts after school. I would have went right into a corporate America. That was at McKinsey convention,
[0:07:24.00] KM: And Mackenzie had a big customer opera.
[0:07:27.2] WT: I was in there Dallas office, and they were they did — while I was there — got to do some pro bono work for the Dallas Opera. I wound up working for the Met later. Um, but yeah,
[0:07:38.2] KM: As an analyst for them?
[0:07:39.2] WT: Uh, sort of — I was in the in the artistic department, kind of.
[0:07:42.2] KM: So when we come back, we're gonna take a really quick break. But when we come back, we're going to find out all about, um how you became a Tony Award winning producer on Broadway. How you ended up in New York City. Then I want to hear about the day that you came home that you heard that you were gonna come home in the day you decided. And what went through your mind when you decided to do that. We’ll come back, we’ll continue our conversation with Mr Will Trice Consecutive Artistic Director for the Arkansas Repertory Theater in downtown Little Rock. More to come will be right back.
[BREAK]
[0:08:44.0] KM: You're listening to Up in Your Business with me Kerry McCoy and I'm speaking today with Mr Will Trice, Executive Artistic Director for the Arkansas Repertory Theater in downtown Little Rock, Arkansas, and that theater is the longest running nonprofit theater in Arkansas. So Will told us before the break that he sort of grew up in that theater. You're living in New York City. Tell me about the day that you heard about The Rep’s troubles and you decided you might apply for the job or how it came about that you were gonna apply for the job.
[0:09:15.2] WT: It was actually like very gradual, there wasn’t like a day when it sort of happened.
[0:09:22.2] KM: I remember where I was the day that it had that I found out The Rep was closing.
[0:09:24.2] WT: Yeah, well, I certainly remember hearing the news. I'm being very kind of shocked and concerned. I didn't start talking with them until later, and in that context it was very much a — is there anything I can do to help? Do you want to send me some financials to look at? Do you want, you know, uh, but you kind of very general conversation with with Cliff Baker and with Reese Sheppard, who is the board chair
[0:09:53.2] KM: And Cliff’s the founder —
[0:09:54.2] WT: And Cliff, is the founding artistic director on this was prior to his very unfortunate unexpected passing. And then I can kind of that conversation started to shift as we kept talking towards this. Well, are you going to come run it kind of thing, you know, took a bit to fully Consider that and talk to my husband about it. And we had already had sort of vague plans to move — to leave New York and try something new in life, and in work. But it wasn't gonna be here. So you know, talk it over and you know this opportunity comes up and opportunity at it, sort of about making sure that your hometown stays thriving and has a good quality of life. And —
[0:10:38.2] KM: What did he say when you said, “Honey, I've got a job offer in Arkansas?” Where's he from? New York?
[0:10:44.2] WT: He's from Austin —
[0:10:44.9] KM: So that's not too far —
[0:10:46.2] WT: And you know, he has always liked it here, and we've always had a lot of friends here and family here and stuff, but it was definitely — so I'm having this phone call. I don't know if it's gonna go anywhere but just planting this idea in your head.
[0:11:01.2] KM: First thing he said was no?
[0:11:02.2] WT: No, uh — it was just a there's no nothing on the table right now. I'm just saying, like there's a conversation happening and it was like, “Okay…” And then, like a couple of weeks later, I sort of said again, “So I'm having another one of those conversations.” And so that process was a very gradual one as well, until I think we finally both and I think The Rep on their side kind of all sort of got more comfortable with the idea of it and excited about the idea that
[0:11:29.9] KM: They probably weren't planning on you to do to come back, either. That — like you said — is probably an evolution. It's kind of like destiny — you start talking about — can I help with the financials? Because your business analyst, right? And all the sudden you're like, “Well, why are we looking anywhere else?” Did you tell your husband that Little Rock is the new Austin?
[0:11:46.2] WT: Give us time. Haha
[0:11:48.2] KM: It is!
[0:11:49.2] WT: Do really want that kind of cost of living increase? I don’t —
[0:11:53.2] KM: You know, it really is, though the music here is really good. Uh, so what — when you got those financials and you're looking at — what was the biggest hurdle? What's The Rep’s biggest hurdle?
[0:12:06.2] WT: Uh, well, it was then at what it is now. We have significant operating costs every year just to run. And if you think about business expenses for any kind of business sort of falling into either two categories of capital investments or running costs,
[0:12:27.2] KM: What is the last time The Rep raised their ticket price?
[0:12:29.2] WT: Well, when I came —
[0:12:32.2] KM: Thank you —
[0:12:33.6] WT: I don't know before that —
[0:12:34.2] KM: I probably never —
[0:12:35.9] WT: I say we raise — we’ve raised certain prices and we lowered other prices. Do try to do what you do with pricing, which is to encourage good buying patterns.
[0:12:45.2] KM: If your cost of goods are going up, your salaries were going up.Your cost of doing business is going up. How can you not raise prices every year to keep up with that? You can't go to the movie theater for the price that you can go to The Rep and see a live performance.
[0:13:02.2] WT: That's right. Uh, and but — but I would say, you know, kind of the definition of pricing strategy. It can never be cost based, if we actually priced our tickets that at what it costs to put it on, they'd be, I don't know of $152- $200 a ticket, and they'd be like what they are in New York, which are for profit theater ventures, right?
[0:13:24.2] KM: Why can’t you do that?
[0:13:25.2] WT: Well, because what pricing really is, is market based. It's what the market will shoulder, and how many people here would come, would be able to come? I mean, even our prices, the way they are now are not accessible to everyone. But I think even you're sort of average entertainment buyer here isn't going to spend that kind of money to go to the theater.
[0:13:45.2] KM: I think everybody in town — we have, like seven theaters in town is kind of crazy how many theaters they are. Um, but everybody in town sets their theater prices around with The Rep sets their theater prices, and it's hurting them. Whatever your price is, that's what everybody else is gonna set it at. To me, we should have a long conversation after this show to talk about why can't you have $100 ticket price and make it very elitist and then give tickets away?
[0:14:16.8] WT: way to approach it, but I think what happens instead and the kind of the traditional way of approaching it is you sort of set your average ticket prices at a point that you, you know, you think that the market will allow. And uh you make up for the difference in the cost with contributions — And I think for a healthy institutional theater like uh — like The Rep to run, it's about a 50/50 split.
[0:14:44.2] KM: That's what I was gonna — I was gonna ask you that. So it's 50% of your income comes — comes from — should come from ticket sales, and 50% of your income should come from private.
[0:14:53.6] WT: And this is very, there are very general kind of rules of thumb. Every theater’s different every market is different.
[0:14.59.5] KM: — concession doesn't do anything?
[0:15:02:2] WT: It can do a little bit, and I think there's kind of actually room to grow there. But it's on the margin.
[0:15:07.6] KM: Cliff Baker's is this his vision? Who started 1976? Yeah. Is this his vision? What's his vision? You got to speak with him before he passed this year. So what was his vision?
[0:15:20.6] WT: For the for the theater in general? Um, I think it was to have quality, professional, vibrant, engaging theater year round.
[0:15:31.3] KM: What's the name of the genre that your theatre — is it a professional? Is it amateur? Is it —
[0:15:37.5] WT: We are professional.
[0:15:39.6] KM: It's a professional theatre. Is it that the only professional theater in the state of Arkansas besides the Walton Art Center maybe?
[0:15:46.1] WT: No, no, that's no. You could, you know, so there are different definitions of professional. If you pay anyone anything, you could say that it's sort of a professional theater, but, uh, we are — another way you could look at it is we're a union house. Theaters, a very union driven industry on there are three of those that are sort of big union theaters, actually, four —
[0:16:09.9] KM: Argenta?
[0:16:10.5] WT: No, Argenta is a community theater. And um, and I think they do pay a certain a certain amount, but it's for the most part, local and community based.
[0:16:17.9] KM: So it would be Robinson.
[0:16:19.9] WT: So Robinson is a different beast altogether.
[0:16:21.9] KM: Wow. What’s that called?
[0:16:22.9] WT: Yeah, so but the ones kind of in our category. The ones closest to us would be Theater Squared up in Fayetteville and the Arkansas Shakespeare Theater in Conway. We're all equity houses. There's also Murray's. Then there's a good number of great community theaters, some of which hire, you know, will bring in a couple of professional artists to work with local amateur artists, and so we had —
[0:16:52.9] KM: So it got professional, community. And then what's Robinson considered?
[0:16:56.9] WT: So Robinson’s is, you could say, is a presenting organization instead of a producing one.
[0:17:01.9] KM: Touring groups come there and they give him a stage to perform.
[0:17:04.9] WT: That's right. So it's a company out of Tulsa called Celebrity Attractions and they have a series of Broadway tours that come and then Robinson is the venue and Celebrity Attractions is the is the company that makes the presents them.
[0:17:20.9] KM: Oh, presenting. Every time I think about you leaving New York City, I think, “How could you do that?” So leaving New York had to be hard. You were talking about — No? No? I mean, you had such an accomplished career there.
[0:17:34.9] WT: Yeah, and I was there for 15 years, and I did, you know, particularly those last 10 when I was working in producing were great. But I think also you accomplish, you know, one of your life long dreams, and then you go, “Okay, well, now what? Do you want to just kind of keep doing that again and again? Or do you just want to do something different? Do you want to live somewhere different? Do you want to have a different kind of quality of life and just a different kind of experience?”
[0:18:01.9] KM: You had nearly 30 productions on Broadway. They were nominated and won three Tony awards. How do you find out when you're nominated for a Tony award? Do they call you? They send you an email? They text you?
[0:18:13.9] WT: There's a press conference.
[0:18:14.9] KM: You sit there and watch the press conference? You’re just sitting — You don't know before that happens?
[0:18:18.9] WT: No.
[0:18:19.9] KM: And so, what did you do? Like wet your pants when they name your name?
[0:18:22.9] WT: The first time? Well, I mean, they don't name my name. I won those in the context of producing so that it takes a village. So it's really the show that wins the Tony. And —
[0:18:33.9] KM: What was the show?
[0:18:34.9] WT: My first one was for the Gershwin’s Porgy and Bess and then for Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Which was, well it originated at the Steppenwolf?
[0:18:42.9] KM: Oh yeah, sure, Steppenwolf Theater.
[0:18:44.9] WT: And then All the Way, which was about LBJ with Bryan Cranston.
[0:18:49.9] KM: So you're sitting in the audience — so okay, that’s how you find out you're sitting in the audience, they announce it.
[0:18:53.9] WT: Oh you’re watching it or you are actually just you can also just wait for the the blogs to update.
[0:18:59.9] KM: And your friends and all of you — how many producers are on a play?
[0:19:03.9] WT: It varies dramatically on there's kind of different meanings to producing.
[0:19:09.9] KM: What was your meaning?
[0:19:10.9] WT: I was kind of the associate lead producer on all of those. I was the junior partner in a lead producing office. We would be the ones that originate the projects. We literally form LLCs for each show. We get the rights to the material, we hire artists, we hire management, we are accountants, we hire advertising agencies. Then we go about and raise the capital.
[0:19:35.9] KM: And then you get the actors? The last thing just to get the actors?
[0:19:39.9] WT: Well, actually not. It's often one of the first things. You're not going to go forward unless you have a star, often. And then we will raise the capital and so there's producing that is a little, it's a little more passive sort of participation in the kind of day to day management of the of the show, but you are also a producer. You're also sort of making it happen and, but it's a little bit less passive. So when you're in one of the lead producers, we were literally like all day, every day, like managing the show.
[0:20:13.9] KM: But you don't go out there and say, “Stage left, go to the right." You don't tell the actors where to go.
[0:20:19.9] WT: No.
[0:20:20.9] KM: You are literally producing.
[0:20:21.9] WT: We are desk jockeys. Yes.
[0:20:22.9] KM: You met James Earl Jones?
[0:20:25.9] WT: Yes.
[0:20:26.9] KM: Tell me, is he just awesome?
[0:20:29.9] WT: I think he's amazing. He's everything you —
[0:20:31.9] KM: When he walks in a room, is he just big? Is he just so —
[0:20:34.9] WT: He’s very tall and big and everything's very deliberate.
[0:20:38.9] KM: Oh really? Even in real life?
[0:20:40.9] WT: Yeah, but he's an absolutely lovely, man with an absolutely lovely family.
[0:20:47.9] KM: What about Candice Bergen?
[0:20:48.9] WT: Oh, she was amazing. I didn't really interact a ton with her, but I got kind of star struck every time I was in a room with her. But she was very — she's incredibly intelligent and very incredibly classy.
[0:21:00.9] KM: Kerry Washington,
[0:21:03.9] WT: Uh, should be president because she's brilliant and she's got this drive and magnetism and you're like, I don't know, she just — she should be president.
[0:21:17.9] KM: Are all stars like that when you're in the room with them? Do they all have these really big personalities that you can feel in the room? Or do some just turn it on when they’re on stage?
[0:21:27.9] WT: I think there is a, there is a sort of phenomenon to celebrities, right? Like they got to be that way for a reason. And a lot of that’s sort of what you bring to it, right? Like if you didn't know who they were, it's like it's the tree falling in the woods and no one was there. So you know, who knows? Because it's something that you bring to that experience like you’re impressing on them.
[0:21:46.9] KM: How about — you know Al Pacino.
[0:21:49.9] WT: Sure, very shy.
[0:21:55.9] KM: Wow.
[0:21:55.9] WT: Very, very nice.
[0:21:58.9] KM: He seems like he’d just slit your wrist — slit your throat I mean.
[0:22:02.9] WT: He's very kind of meek persona and very, very quiet.
[0:22:05.9] KM: And then the last one I’ve got to ask you about, Angela Lansbury
[0:22:10.9] WT: Like the dame.
[0:22:11.9] KM: The dame.
[0:22:13.9] WT: Class, total class and so smart. Oh, my God.
[0:22:19.9] KM: Well you’ve got to be smart to memorize the lines.
[0:22:21.9] WT: Yeah.
[0:22:22.9] KM: I can't even memorize a 32 second commercial. I have to have him stand over there with the cue card so I can read it. It’s 30 seconds. How could you do two hours of it?
[0:22:30.9] WT: Yeah, every day, 8 shows a week.
[0:22:32.9] KM: All right, we’ve got to take another break. It's time. When we come back, we'll continue our conversation with Mr. Will Trice, Executive Artistic Director for the Arkansas Repertory Theater in downtown Little Rock.
[BREAK]
[0:22:44.9] ANNOUNCER: Arkansas Flag and Banner is proud to underwrite Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. McCoy began this broadcast with the intention of offering a mentoring platform for those with an entrepreneurial spirit. Through candid conversations and interesting interviews with business and community minded Arkansans, listeners gain insight into starting and running a business, the ups and downs of risk taking, and the commonalities of successful people.
Kerry McCoy, founder and president of Arkansas Flag and Banner, believes in paying knowledge and experience forward and developed this radio show as a means of doing so. The biographies, life experiences and wisdom of her guests would likely go unheard if not for this venue. Rarely do people open up for an hour to an audience about their life mistakes, triumphs, and pitfalls. This unique radio show allows the listener intimate access into the stories of prominent leaders in our state.
I'm Adrian McNally, manager of the Arkansas Flag and Banner showroom and gift shop, located on the first floor of the historic Taborian Hall on the corner of ninth and State streets in downtown Little Rock, Arkansas. In business for 43 years, we offer an old school shopping experience with front door parking, clerks to help you, and department store variety. Open Monday through Friday 8 to 5:30pm and Saturday, 10 to 4.
[INTERVIEW CONTINUED]
[0:24:03.9] KM: You’re listening to Up in Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy, and I'm speaking today with Mr Will Trice, Executive Artistic Director for the Arkansas Repertory Theater in downtown Little Rock. So before the break, we talked about living in New York. We talked about how how Will learned about the Rep and how it just evolved and how he's following destiny and that life's just lead him right back home.
Did people in New York know about the repertory theater? Does it have a good reputation?
[0:24:30.9] WT: It does. It’s because there's a, you know, 40/30 year history of being, you know, in the league of resident theaters. So yeah, I think it's know. I mean, it's not like right on the tip of everyone's tongue up there. It's not a because it's just geographically not nearby. But yeah, sure.
[0:24:52.9] KM: You know, we get some really great actors that come down here to the Rep. I've seen some really great actors at the Rep and I just thought, “Do those people know about the Rep? Is that why they're coming down here? Because they've heard about it?”
[0:25:04.9] WT: I think we definitely have a good reputation among the actor community. We’re sort of, I would say, at the at the lower end of the pay scale in terms of theaters,
[0:25:15.9] KM: Who’s the guy that did Les Misérables that came down here and that sang that song so good?
[0:25:21.9] WT: Oh I don’t know. That was before me.
[0:25:22.9] KM: He’s come here a million times. Who is it, Gray? Oh my gosh, that guy is quality and he came and he did his last year. It was on tour and he came here and I thought, “That guy's all pro, and he came to Little Rock Arkansas.”
[0:25:40.9] WT: We, I mean every show we've got incredibly talented people from from New York, from Chicago, from Little Rock, often.
[0:25:46.9] KM: The education that it brings and the experience it brings to the citizens of Arkansas is really wonderful, too. But let's talk about the Tony Awards just from one more second. So the Tony — So if you didn't hear, Will got three Tonys and nominated for five. And you just like, don't know till they announce it to the world whether you're one of those people that's gonna be nominated.
But now you're at the Tony. Did you go to the Tonys?
[0:26:11.9] WT: Yes.
[0:26:12.9] KM: Did you go the year that Patrick Neil Harris was there, and he did some of his did —
[0:26:15.9] WT: I did, yeah.
[0:26:16.9] KM: The really outlandish one. I don't remember what year that was?
[0:26:19.9] WT: He did a couple of them, but yeah, I saw one. I definitely saw one at the ones [inaudible].
[0:26:25.9] KM: People, you’ve got to go to YouTube and see — is it Patrick Neil Harris?
[0:26:28.9] WT: Neil Patrick Harris.
[0:26:30.9] KM: Neil Patrick Harris, and see his opening number for the Tony Awards getting bigger. It's getting bigger. You know which one I'm talking about?
[0:26:39.9] WT: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was there for that one.
[0:26:41.9] KM: It's just getting bigger. No you were not.
[0:26:44.9] WT: Yeah.
[0:26:45.9] KM: Oh, I bet you couldn’t sleep for two days after that. That's one of those adrenaline rushes. That, look — Oh, that's good. Okay, so are you in the audience and they called your name.
[0:26:56.9] WT: Or the show. The show. The show’s name.
[0:26:57.9] KM: I mean, they call the show's name. Did you get to go up? Or did you go up —
[0:27:00.9] WT: Yeah.
[0:27:01.9] KM: You went up on the Tony Awards stage?
[0:27:04.9] WT: I did.
[0:27:05.9] KM: On public —
[0:27:05.9] WT: I didn’t speak. I sort of stood behind with kind of —
[0:27:09.9] KM: What year was that?
[0:27:10.9] WT: Throngs of suits. It was 2012, 2013, 2014.
[0:27:13.9] KM: What a run. Did you just think, “Well, I'm just gonna win every year.”
[0:27:18.9] WT: Honestly, at then a certain point, you know, that's not why you're doing it.
[0:27:22.9] KM: I thought you were going to say, “At a certain point, it’s just old. Who cares?”
[0:27:26.9] WT: No you and your your If it's in commercial theater, you're doing it to put on a good show, but also to make money.
[0:27:32.9] KM: What do you do when you left that night? Where'd you go party?
[0:27:35.9] WT: The show's often have their own parties, particularly if they're sort of up for the big award. So the Tonys themselves have a gala that you can you can opt into to do that. So did that one year. But for the most part, go to our little show party with the cast because they're usually there. The cast is usually there watching.
[0:27:57.9] KM: That's so fun. Let's talk about the future of the Rep. You said, and I quote, “I couldn't be more excited to join the Rep staff, board, supporters, and audience as we continue its rich tradition of entertaining and inspiring theater in Arkansas. The way this organization has rallied over the past year shows how much the Rep is cherished, and it's an honor to have a role in mapping its future.”
What do you think people love about the Rep? Because you're gonna have to identify that and you're gonna have to build off of it.
[0:28:29.9] WT: I think people love professional quality theater that's vibrant and engaging and immediate and intimate, and I think that we're the best providers of that.
[0:28:45.9] KM: Then why did ticket sales go down?
[0:28:47.9] WT: There's always going to be volatility when it comes to ticket sales. When comes to something like that. Which is why the kind of that 50% contribution portion is so vital. Because without that sort of stability, that foundation of support you can't withstand that volatility. That's just natural. I mean, that could be caused for all kinds of reasons. You know, like, let's say there's an ice storm that lasts for two months. Well, nobody's going to the theater then.
[0:29:23.9] KM: Or you put Shakespeare on. I can’t stand to go see Shakespeare.
[0:29:27.9] WT: A lot of people love it. Not everyone loves it.
[0:29:30.9] KM: No, I bet if you went and looked at ticket sales, they don’t.
[0:29:32.9] WT: You know. And, you know, certain shows were more popular with with certain folks than others and, you know —
[0:29:39.9] KM: musicals are always popular.
[0:29:42.9] WT: Generally, yes, musicals are more popular than straight plays. They're also more expensive to do. So it's a bigger risk.
[0:29:48.9] KM: Oh really.
[0:29:49.9] WT: Oh, they’re tremendously more.
[0:29:52.9] KM: Why? Because you have to have an orchestra?
[0:29:52.9] WT: More people, ensembles. We cost so much to operate because we’re a very labor driven business.
[0:29:58.9] KM: Well, that will kill you. What — Because you can't get your labor from China.
[0:30:02.9] WT: No and we also can’t, you know, we're at a disadvantage to something like making a movie or a TV show. You know, you just have to make one of those once and then you just continue to distribute it with little to no cost. Every time we do what we do, everyone's got to be there doing it. And we are limited to the number of people who are literally in the room. That's also, though, why we’re special. Like that experiential nature of it is always going to be better, I think, than watching something on a screen on your couch.
[0:30:37.9] KM: You know, Chicago was what you opened up with this season.
[0:30:41.9] WT: Yes.
[0:30:43.9] KM: Dancers.
[0:30:44.9] WT: Dancers, a band, the principles of it. The musicals, they’re a big investment.
[0:30:50.9] KM: Set design. It was good, though.
[0:30:53.9] WT: That was great. Great.
[0:30:56.9] KM: So I took my grandson to see it because we watched it on TV. And when we went to see it, he liked those girls half dressed. He's 8 years old. He’s just like, “I liked plays.”
[0:31:08.9] WT: Are they all like this? Sex and murder and —
[0:31:12.9] KM: Yeah, that's right. Let’s talk about the Reps. You talk about how busy it is, it's season is year round. Is that correct?
[0:31:22.9] WT: Roughly. I mean, it's generally around kind of a school year schedule. We are, we're kind of experimenting now with also doing things in the summer. So, yes, to answer your question. We’re basically year round.
[0:31:36.9] KM: Would that interfere — if you just stuff in the summer, would it interfere with your Smitty Educational? Smitty stands for summer musical —
[0:31:44.9] WT: That actually doesn't exist anymore. in that incarnation. We do still have a very active education program. It has sort of a different format. And —
[0:31:53.9] KM: So if you did plays year round, would it mess with the children going on stage? Or do you have another stage they’d go on?
[0:31:57.9] WT: We have. We do have multiple performance spaces and the education thing does have, like a basically devoted performance space is well. For example, this summer this past summer, we had a kind of education show. We did Willy Wonka Jr. It was on the best things I've ever seen there.
[0:32:14.9] KM: What do you mean? Who did it?
[0:32:16.9] WT: The kids.
[0:32:18.9] KM: And it was one of your — Oh, I just love kids.
[0:32:19.9] WT: They were incredible.
[0:32:20.9] KM: They did a great grow?
[0:32:21.9] WT: You were incredible. It was directed by Anna Kimmel, who's our education director. And it was a really, really great show. And so, you know, they are also kind of opportunities to engage young artists in, you know, what we do on the main stage as well.
[0:32:35.9] KM: You have 70,000 patrons?
[0:32:38.9] WT: Well, sort of define the time period.
[0:32:42.9] KM: I think these are annually — 377 seats in the theater.
[0:32:46.9] WT: Yes.
[0:32:47.9] KM: This one got me: 200 nights of performances a year, and you're talking about doing it through the summer.To me that would be smart because it's another income. I mean, why not make money three months, every month out of the year and then 45 world premieres. I don't know what those would have been? In the past?
[0:33:06.9] WT: I mean, they're all before me. I can, just off the top of my head I know that they premiered a musical Because of Winn-Dixie. A few years ago, Duncan Sheik wrote the score for who I later got to work with on American Psycho in New York.
[0:33:21.9] KM: I love his music
[0:33:23.9] WT: And, you know, going all going back to the mid 80s when they premiered a new musical of The Good Woman of Setzuan that was written by Michael Rice, who's from here and who's actually going to be directing Bye, Bye Birdie that we're doing next next summer. So, yeah, they do have a history of premiering new work.
[0:33:42.9] KM: I'm speaking today with Mr Will Trice, Executive Artistic Director of the Arkansas Repertory Theater in downtown Little Rock. Executive Artistic Director is a new position they made up for you. Am I correct?
[0:33:55.9] WT: Yeah, but it's it's not so much a new sort of function. It's kind of a combining in a sort of slight shifting of roles and responsibilities that were always there. Just it's just a different assignment.
[0:34:11.9] KM: So it's — so there's always been an artistic director, and when I think of an artistic director, I think of somebody that works with the set and the actors and decides on this shows and has this artistic influence. But when I think of an executive, I think of someone who's looking at the financial statements, and looking at the bottom line, seeing where costs have gone up from the prior years. Is that what you mean, combined?
[0:34:23.9] WT: And so it's both, Um, and I would say that a distinction from from a traditional artistic director is they would often direct productions themselves.
[0:34:52.9] KM: Did you do that?
[0:34:53.9] WT: No, at least not in the foreseeable future. And so, you know, I do have arches of involvement in terms of choosing the shows and and and choosing directors and people to work with. But it's not quite as hands on to actually like directing the show's myself.
[0:35:13.9] KM: Is every show directed by somebody different?
[0:35:15.9] WT: Yes.
[0:35:16.5] KM: All right. So, 2020 when does this season end? In the spring?
[0:35:20.1] WT: So that this current one we have, we — we’re about to start performances for our final show this year, which is It's a Wonderful Life. And then, after the first of the year, we have, ah, sort of mini season of shows, that takes us through next summer, and then we'll start the clock back over again with our traditional schedule of shows —
[0:35:43.5] KM: So the season is fall?
[0:35:44.7] WT: Yeah, it starts in the fall and kind of goes for a year. We — the one we're currently in right now because of the shutdown, it was this whole calendar year. Which is not our norm. So that's why we're doing a little mini season next year to kind of get us back on track.
[0:36:00.0] KM: How far in advance do you plan your season?
[0:36:02.1] WT: I'm currently planning the 2021 season —
[0:36:06.3] KM: Because — they won't let shows overlap with another show in Tana, is that correct? So, like, if somebody wanted to play It's a Wonderful Life — they’re like, “No, no, no. The Reps got that. You can't have it.”
[0:36:18.4.0] WT: Yes, yes. Oh, so yeah, rights to the shows themselves. There are restrictions to that. So that you know, you don’t cannibalize.
[0:36:25.0] KM: Do you think The Rep gets first rights of everybody?
[0:36:29.4] WT: I think every sort of licensing house has different policies about that sort of thing. I know that you know, from their perspective, we generate more revenue. But if a tour is out of a show, they're gonna take precedence.
[0:36:42.5] KM: What do you mean, if a tour is out of a show?
[0:36:44:3] WT: So, for example, like Waitress is coming here in February like so well, in those rights that show is so new — those rights aren't available anywhere, but, but were in an older show but just happen to have a tour. They wouldn't let us let do it, for example, because that tour is coming through and that tour takes precedence. Because overall, that tour is generating more revenue
[0:37:04.0] KM: Oh, so they would do it on the performance stage at the Robinson Auditorium. I got you. So because they're touring, they would bring it to the performance stage rather than let you do a production of it —
[0:37:15.9] WT: Right, because that tour is a production —
[0:37:19.2] KM: That's correct —
[0:37:19.9] WT: Right? And so that production, because it is a tour, is going to take precedence in terms of the of the rights.
[0:37:26.8] KM: So Robinson gets first pick of what goes around because they've got — they've got touring rights. Yeah, the road. And then you would be next. And Murray's next.
[0:37:38.6] WT: I think when it gets to that level, there's not really a priority thing. I think it's whoever gets a first.
[0:37:46.6] KM: So it's whoever gets there first, which is why you're doing 2021. Yeah, that makes sense.
[0:37:50.4] WT: But we, you know — I know what the Shakespeare folks were doing next summer and we're friends. We all talk, it’s it's a friendly community.
[0:37:58.7] KM: That's what I was gonna ask. Is it a friendly community or are there enough? Are there enough actresses to go our actors and actresses to go around?
[0:38:05.3] WT: Uh, you know, not for everything. Uh, and you know, we wind up having to bring a lot of our artists in from New York or Chicago
[0:38:16.7] KM: Which is not cheap. Where do they stay?
[0:38:18.9] WT: We have, we have, we provide housing. That's kind of part of the deal. That's one of our largest expenses, actually,
[0:38:24.3] KM: Is it?
[0:38:24.8] WT: Yeah. So, you know, if we're ever able to cast someone locally for a role, we would much prefer that because we don't have to house them. But, you know, it's just a matter of the roles that were looking to cast because they all have very specific requirements and are those, you know, with someone that's perfect for that here. But, uhh —
[0:38:45.3] KM: It’s great for the people in Little Rock to get to work with a professional that's come in from somewhere else. Don’t you think? I mean, that's a great thing for our city. So what is your vision for the future if you couldn't have The Rep and dream. And I know you dream when you lay in your bed and lie and you're about to fall asleep, or where you wake up in the morning, you're laying in bed and you're dreaming about what you want The Rep to be? What do you want it to be?
[0:39:08.3] WT: Uh, from a programming perspective?
[0:39:12.6] KM: From any perspective.
[0:39:13.8] WT: Well, I mean first and foremost like sustainable. Stable, which is — which is uh, really, that's a that's a tall order for any nonprofit theater and any city, but much less one the size of Little Rock. So, yeah, first and foremost, like the ability to —
[0:39:32.2] KM: Be sustainable and what is sustainable look like?
[0:39:35.4] WT: Reaching our goals on both the earned revenue ticket side and in the contributions. But particularly when it comes to the contributions we have to have that — the kind of philanthropy.
[0:39:46.8] KM: A lot of people or is it just a few good people?
[0:39:49.3] WT: Oh, it’s a mix. It's a mix. It's an ecosystem of contributors and of audience members.
[0:39:53.4] KM: And what do you want? What do you want the stage and the performances to be like?
[0:39:58.8] WT: Ah, entertaining.
[0:40:02.3] KM: Okay —
[0:40:02.8] WT: First and foremost, because not everything is I'm not, like, particularly as a producer — I'm not particularly interested in, like, devastating people. Uh —
[0:40:12.6] KM: What do you mean, devastating?
[0:40:13.4] WT: Oh, you know, like I won my second Tony for an amazing production of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf — Well, it's a three hour show about an alcoholic couple like — so you know — may maybe it's some point we might do something like that. But, you know, it's it's, like, not a good time. And I think, I think particularly right now, you know, I prioritize something like being entertaining, being a good time. Within that context, can we talk about things that we need to be talking about here. Uh, can we also do things that are, you know, inspiring? Beautiful? Beautiful. Is that weird? You know. Yeah, but I think you know, first and foremost, it's gotta be a good night out. Otherwise, what's the point?
[0:41:03.8] KM: What's a good night out look like?
[0:41:04.3] WT: I don’t — you know it's dinner and a show — and then a drink. You know what I mean?
[0:41:08.9] KM: You can’t get dinner downtown. That's bugs me.
[0:41:12.4] WT: It bugs me — there’s there's actually, like, really good food within the vicinity, like —
[0:41:22.6] KM: Before the play, but not after. You get out of nine, you’re ready for a drink and something to eat, and there's nothing open downtown.
[0:41:27.8] WT: There’s — there's some good places a couple of blocks down when you get that block were like Samantha's and [inaudible] and Chapel and —
[0:41:35.2] KM: Past nine o’clock?
[0:41:35.8] WT: Um, yeah, yeah, but you do have to walk a couple blocks to get there. I would love it if there were — if there was something right on our block, that was a good place to — to grab a drink. We're actually one of the things that we’re actively exploring is making our own lobby and facility a place that you would stay and have a drink after the show.
[0:41:56.6] KM: Great idea —
[0:41:57.8] KM: So you know —
[0:41:58.4] KM: that's creative thinking —
[0:41:58.8] KM: Which of course requires a little capital that — uh — so does everything,
[0:42:02.7] KM: Yes, but I think that's creative thinking, and I'm glad you're thinking out of the box and trying to do it a little bit different. The same, but a little bit different. I've sure enjoyed meeting you Will.
[0:42:11.8] WT: Same - thank you for having me on
[0:42:12.6] KM: Do we have a gift for Will? Okay, Will you get a desk set for you to take back and put in your desk — So there's the base. This is the U. S. Flag. It goes in the center. Just incase you didn’t know. There's Arkansas. I got it. And there's New York. If I'd have known your husband was from Texas I’d have given you a Texas one too —
[0:42:38.4] WT: Can Arkansas and Texas being the same pedestal?
[0:42:40.6] KM: I don't know —
[0:42:43.7] WT: Are you going to let me give a short little plug for upcoming season?
[0:42:45.4] KM: Yes. Do it.
[0:42:46.6] WT: We've got three great shows coming up. The first one is uh — is Ann — story about Governor Ann Richards of Texas, who was hysterical woman. She's gonna be played by a Tony winner Emmy nominee, hysterical woman named Elizabeth Ashley. She was the star of a show called Evening Shade that was set in Arkansas. After that, we're doing The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime — is an adaptation of a best selling book. Very visionary. Very design heavy show.
[0:43:18.7] KM: Is that a children’s book?
[0:43:19.7] WT: It’s about a 15 year old boy, but I'd say it's definitely also an adult show. Um, and it's gonna look like nothing we've ever done — and then in the summer we're doing Bye Bye, Birdie.
[0:43:33.3] KM: Everybody loves that one…
[0:43:43.5] WT: And it's gonna feature a playing the teens in that show was gonna be a ensemble of local teens that are going to get to work right alongside — like you mentioned the professionals that are playing the adults.
[0:43:45.9] KM: Love that. I want to see the Richards? What’s the name of the Ann Richards —
[0:43:49.7] WT: It’s called “Ann” — she was a character. And
[0:43:52.6] KM: She was a character —
[0:43:54.7] WT: I think the ultimate kind of bipartisan figure, you know, a Democratic governor in Texas, you know, like, she brought people together and did it with cracking one liners — right and left.
[0:44:03.9] KM: She did. She was great. Um, I want to thank all our listeners for spending time with us today. Thank you again. Will, I've really enjoyed meeting you. Get out and support the Arkansas Rep. Uh, should you buy season tickets or individual —
[0:44:19.3] WT: Season tickets are on sale right now. We'll put single tickets for each of the show's on sale closer to time. But right now you can go to therep.org and and get a subscription and get the best deals and get free parking
[0:44:33.1] KM: Do it before he talked him into raising ticket prices, therep.org. I'll see everybody next week. Until then, be brave and keep it up.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:44:43.5] GM: You've been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. For links to resource you heard discussed on today's show, go to flagandbanner.com, select Radio Show and choose today's guest. All interviews are recorded and posted the following week. Subscribe to podcasts wherever you like to listen. Kerry’s goal is simple to help you live the American dream.
[END]
