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Guests Who Fell in Love with Arkansas

Best of 2024

On this episode we look back at Kerry's interviews with guests who moved to Little Rock, fell in love, and chose to make the Natural State their home.

For some it's the southern cuisine; others the rich ecosystems. Folks may stay for the bounty of history or for the earnest communities that thrive here to this day. Whatever the reason, plenty of people find cause to build a life here in central Arkansas.

 
 

Listen to Learn:

  • What brought our guests to Arkansas
  • Why they fell in love with the Natural State and never left
  • Words of encouragement going into the new year, and more...

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TRANSCRIPT

EPISODE 434

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:11] GM: Welcome to Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. Through storytelling and conversational interviews, this weekly radio show and podcast offers listeners an insider's view into the commonalities of successful people and the ups and downs of risk taking. Connect with Kerry through her candid, funny, informative, and always-encouraging weekly blog. And now it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business. 

[0:00:37] KM: Thank you, Son Gray. After four decades of running a small business called Arkansas Flag & Banner, now simply flagandbanner.com, my team and I decided to create a platform for not just me, but other business owners and successful people to pay forward our experiential knowledge in a conversational way. Originally, we thought we'd be teaching others, but it didn't take long before we realized that we were the persons learning. Listening to our guests has been both educational and inspiring. 

[EPISODE]

[0:01:05] TW: And listening to today's best of program should be very interesting. We're going to revisit a number of Kerry's guests on the show over the past couple of years and find out what brought them to Little Rock. These are not native Arkansans. These are people who fell in love with Central Arkansas once they got here. We'll start off with the man you know as a TV gardener. He's also a lifestyle expert, a preservationist. He runs Plantopia and Botanical Gardens, Chris Olsen. 

[0:01:37] KM: When did the seed of entrepreneurship first begin for you?

[0:01:40] CO: I have always been that way. I started in Connecticut when I was a little kid. My dad a very stressful job. He was a stock broker and actuary and all that. His way to relieve his stress was a garden. He created – our whole backyard was a garden, orchard and everything.

[0:01:57] KM: Big backyard.

[0:01:59] CO: We had a big backyard.

[0:02:00] KM: In Connecticut, you had a big backyard.

[0:02:02] CO: Yeah, we had a big backyard. We used to ride the station wagon picking up bags of grass and leaves to use as mulch in the garden. I loved it. He gave me a little patch of land. My grandpa had an old wagon. We painted it green. I thought you’re wearing green today. My favorite color. And I grew a vegetable garden, and that’s how I started. I used to sell vegetables to my neighbors and then I also had a paper route. And it all started because my dad always never gave – they never gave allowance. You had to earn your money. I mean, I didn’t live a bad life. I lived a good life. But nonetheless –

[0:02:36] KM: You are living in Connecticut.

[0:02:38] CO: Yeah, exactly. I earned my own money and I grew up that nobody you owes you anything and you owe no one anything. You work for it.

[0:02:50] KM: That instilled an ambition in you to earn stuff.

[0:02:52] CO: Absolutely. I always worked from the beginning and I always enjoy working.

[0:02:55] KM: Did you go to school for horticulture?

[0:02:58] CO: Well, I did that Oxford, England, but I went at architecture landscape design. I did not go through a horticultural school though.

[0:03:07] KM: You went to Oxford, England in architectural landscape design. Is that like a two-year program?

[0:03:12] CO: Yes, two-year program.

[0:03:14] KM: Is that what you would recommend to other people?

[0:03:17] CO: I mean, there are so many great programs here in the United States now, and I think we have one locally. It’s a great experience because there you study at actual gardens. You walk through and you learn their philosophies behind it. It’s much more than just plant design and plant knowledge. It’s really about the principles of design. Then you come back to the US where you learn plant knowledge. I just got it from working in nurseries. Of course, my dad has a passion for plants too. So I picked it up from him. The coolest thing is, is on weekends, when I was a kid, me and my dad would visit nurseries and we put in little shells in my window to grow house plants. I always made money doing it.

[0:04:00] KM: How did you end up in Little Rock, Arkansas?

[0:04:03] CO: Well, coming from Connecticut, I moved just a few times. We moved to Atlanta, Georgia for a year and a half. And then from there, we moved to Little Rock. And we lived in Little Rock for about 3-1/2 years and then we moved to San Diego.

[0:04:16] KM: Good night, nurse.

[0:04:17] CO: We kept going west.

[0:04:18] KM: Why did you daddy – Was it all for career?

[0:04:21] CO: Every time he moved, he got a better, better job.

[0:04:24] TW: Another guest on the program in the past couple of years that began her life on another part of the globe, Pakistan, is the director of the Interfaith Center at St. Margaret's Church in Little Rock. Sophia Said. 

[0:04:38] KM: Sophia Said was born a liberal Muslim in Pakistan. She met her husband, Qayyim Said, the night before they are arranged marriage. Three months later, she joined her new husband in Utah, where he was studying to receive his doctorate. In Pakistan, Sophia and her father, both Muslims, were excited that Sophia had been accepted to a prestigious Catholic college there.

Now in Utah, she found herself living amongst an attending college with Mormons. The cultural commonalities were striking and her view of the world grew larger. When she first moved to America in 1996, it was an easy transition, a safe place for Muslims. But since 9/11, things have changed and so has she. Having once been taught that women should be quiet and invisible, Sophia has decided to step into the limelight, not for herself, but for her children and for her community.

After moving to Little Rock, so that she could follow her husband who got a job teaching at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Sophia attended and graduated from yet another school, the Clinton School of Public Service. In 2012, she became an American citizen. Today, this Muslim woman is spreading the word and reminding us to love thy neighbor; a common theme across all religions.

Your husband's taking the job in Little Rock, Arkansas. He's working at the University of Arkansas Medical Sciences, Qayyim Said. And you moved here in 2007. You graduated in 2007, gave the valedictorian speech. Come home, he says, “All right, honey. That's over. We’re moving to Little Rock, Arkansas.” He said, “Let me get the map out. Where is that?”

[0:06:23] SS: Exactly. I did know that this is the Clinton state.

[0:06:29] KM: Yeah. And so you move here.

[0:06:30] SS: Yeah.

[0:06:31] KM: Tell us a little bit about that.

[0:06:33] SS: I actually wanted to pursue my PhD after my bachelors. Initially, it was a bummer for me that oh, we're moving to Little Rock and there is not a place where I can do my PhD, but then –

[0:06:45] KM: Did you all hear she said bummer? Okay, I just want you to know that. Okay, go ahead. She’s very American. All right, go ahead.

[0:06:51] SS: But then when I did my research on Little Rock, I found Clinton School of Public Service, which is essentially going to teach me the same things, but at least the work I'll do after that would be same. I was actually pretty excited that we will see American South. I had traveled a lot in America. I traveled from coast to coast and border to border. I have seen not all, but more than 35 states, but not the south part. I was really excited to be in American South. And then Clinton School of Public Service gave me an opportunity to do something different than PhD, but with similar outcomes.

I was very excited. I came here. I pursued my masters. Both my children were in middle and high school. I worked with some local organizations as an economist, but started more and more focus on interfaith work, because my children were growing and I thought there is a need to teach people interfaith cooperate – the skills of interfaith cooperation.

[0:07:53] KM: I'm sure it helped them cope at school.

[0:07:55] SS: Well, I hope so. That's why I started my work, but I hope. One day, my son came home, and at dinner table we would share stories of what happened at the school. My daughter who was younger than my son and was spunkier than my son, she told me that, “Mom, Askia’s friend called him a terrorist again today.” I asked my son, “What did you do about it, honey?” He was like, “No, mom. Nothing. You know, people don't know, and it happens every other day. No big deal about it.”

We were sitting at our dinner table and it really struck me that I am doing so much interfaith work. Look at my child, he does not know how to respond to somebody who's calling him an extremist. The kid is born and raised in America. He does not even know what an extremist is. I asked him that, “You should have responded. You know that this is not what Muslims are.” My daughter said, “Mom, don't worry. I took care of it.” I said, “Really? How did you take care of it?” She said, “The child who called Askia a terrorist, he was a Hindu.” I said, okay. I said, “If you think our God is mean and tell us to go and kill people, your God is so cheap you can buy it off a retail store’s shelf.”

I cut right back at him. If my God is mean, his God is cheap. I was looking at my two beloved children that one of them does not know how to respond to a bully who is calling him an extremist. The other one is actually turning into a bully. Both of them lack the communication skills that they needed to talk about faith. That's how actually some of my work started. I thought it's really important that we teach our young children and teenagers how to talk about faith. And how can we do that if they'd never talk about faith to each other?

I started this program, which is called Multi-Faith Youth Group of Arkansas back in 2011. It's a group of teenagers, high schoolers who are from Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist faiths and no faith. They come together twice a month. They have interfaith dialog with each other. They talk about world issues. They talk about extremism and terrorism. They talk about gun violence. They talk about tolerance, and love, and patience. They do service projects together. They started the group in 9th grade. They graduated in 12th grade. It's been going on for years now.

We have graduated several high schoolers that have gone to different amazing universities. The key thing is we are creating the leaders of the future who know how to communicate the diversity, deal with diversity, how to respect each other's differences and live in a positive, healthy, inclusive community.

[0:10:58] TM: Our next transplanted Arkansan who fell in love with the state began his love affair with Arkansas at the University up in Fayetteville, because he's a basketball player from Missouri, Joe Klein. 

[0:11:10] KM: Growing up in Slater, Missouri, this giant of a man was recruited in 1982 by coach Eddie Sutton to come to the small town of Fayetteville, Arkansas, and play for the Razorbacks. It is on the hill, as we Arkansans lovingly call it, that the seven-foot center, number 35, began his momentous career and met the love of his life, Dana. And why did you pick Little Rock when you're from Missouri? 

[0:11:35] JK: We got married in Dallas. She was from Dallas. And this is in ’86. Back early on, we were like, “We're coming back to Dallas. What a cool city.” And then Dallas just kept getting bigger and bigger. And we'd go back to see our parents. And when I got traded to Boston and Sacramento, we had a house in Sacramento, and we went up to Boston and looked around for a little bit, and we couldn't. The difference in the markets was – we had $350,000. We thought we were going to get us a mansion. They were showing us apartments.

[0:12:22] GM: Yeah, not in Boston.
 
[0:12:23] JK: I mean, we liked Boston. But we weren't going to live there. Because all our family and everybody was back this way. We said, “You know what, let's go to Little Rock for the summer.” And we came back here. We bought a house. And just kind of have a base. We wanted to have a base. And just really enjoyed it, and liked it.

And so, our kids were really young. They weren't in school yet. We didn't have to be back in Boston till October when practice started. Our summers were longer. And so, we would just come back here in summer and just kind of got entrenched into the community a little bit. And then we started Corky's in 1996. 

[0:13:13] KM: When did you retire?

[0:13:14] JK: 2000.

[0:13:14] KM: So, you started Corky’s before you retired? I had no idea.

[0:13:18] JK: Yeah. And so, when we retired, it was kind of like – We like it there. And I had a lot of opportunities to go into NBA coaching. But I know that lifestyle. And it's just like you're going to be somewhere two years. And you're going to be somewhere two years. You’re hired to be fired. And so, that didn't really appeal to me at that time. And so, we had Corky's and it was like I will come back here and start working there and figure it out.

[0:13:55] TW: Our next Little Rock transplant is a football player. And even though you hear him every day on local radio and you see him weekly on local television, he's not from a Little Rock area. David Bazzel is a Floridian, but he fell in love with Arkansas. 

[0:14:13] KM: Do you come from an athletic family?

[0:14:15] DB: I'm an only child. I came from Panama City, Florida. My dad was a pretty good athlete, small, undersized, didn't play football. So I was the only one to do that. And left Panama City to come play football in Arkansas for Lou Holtz back in the early 80s.

[0:14:28] KM: So you were born in Florida?

[0:14:299] DB: Yeah, Panama City. Redneck Riviera.

[0:14:31] KM: I did not realize that.

[0:14:33] DB: Yeah. So for me to come up here, it was pretty unique because where I'm from down there, nobody knew much about Arkansas. But I wanted to go to a place to where once I left, I could make an impact. This was a 16-year-old kid making that decision. So I knew if I went to Arkansas, if I could achieve success with the Razorbacks, it would open up doors, because I couldn't believe how much people love the Razorbacks here. Where I'm from, every block in your neighborhood had Alabama, Florida State, Florida, Auburn. But the loyalties here – there are other schools here, but Arkansas was such a dominant thing to where I thought, “If I came up here, succeeded. Once I got through with school, it would open up a lot of doors,” and it has. 

[0:15:14] KM: You said you were 16?

[0:15:15] DB: A 16-year-old senior making that decision.

[0:15:17] KM: Why were you a 16-year-old senior?

[0:15:19] DB: I started school early. So I was playing football for the Razorbacks when I was 17. How about that? Crazy. 

[0:15:24] KM: And you're a linebacker.

[0:15:24] DB: I was a linebacker. Yes. 

[0:15:26] KM: That's a big guy's position.

[0:15:27] DB: Undersized, but I was quick, I was strong. I had a good football IQ. I had some really good coaches. But I'm still, like today, I had a shoulder replacement. A year ago it failed. I can't even raise my arm. So I think that being undersized and playing that game, overuse – I'm paying for it now, but I will still do the same thing. I love the game.

[0:15:48] TW: Some of the guests on our program have simple stories, David Bazzel, born in Florida, decided to come to Arkansas to make a difference. Others in our guest lineup today, complicated stories. For example, another radio personality you probably got to know on the radio before this meeting with Kerry McCoy on Up in Your Business, Lisa Fischer. Kerry was surprised to find out Lisa was adopted. 

[0:16:12] KM: Adopted? 

[0:16:13] LF: LF: Yes. My mother overdosed when I was 12 in New Orleans, and the Gibsons in Dermott had to take me in for a few days.

[0:16:22] KM: How old were you?

[0:16:22] LF: Twelve. 1975. Because I'm 60. I turned 60, recently. I hate telling it. I mean, do the math.

[0:16:29] KM: I'm proud of it.

[0:16:29] LF: Thank you. So, the Gibson family adopted me. I changed my name. I had a Jewish name. I was raised in a Jewish home. I was Lisa Kaplan. And so, the Gibson – I was Lisa Kaplan Gibson for a while when I was growing up, but it sounded like – I would say Lisa K. Gibson. They thought K was my middle name. So then, when I was in TV and radio, in the beginning I was just Lisa Gibson. And then I got married when I was 25 in 1988. So, I was Lisa Fischer. My son's name is Gibson Fischer. So, I named my children after – 

[0:16:58] KM: So, what's your given name?

[0:16:59] LF: My given name was Lisa N. Kaplan. K-A-P-L-A-N.

[0:17:02] KM: And then you became Gibson.

[0:17:04] LF: I became Gibson.

[0:17:04] LM: Now, you're a Fischer.

[0:17:06] LF: Right. Only one marriage but a lot of last names.

[0:17:08] KM: How long did you live with the adoptive family?

[0:17:10] LF: They adopted me when I was 12. And so, I went to college at 18 and –

[0:17:14] KM: Stayed with them the whole time.

[0:17:15] LF: Yeah. They adopted me right after. I mean, it was a tough decision for them. My biological father was still alive, but because of his addiction issues, he could have never raised me.

[0:17:23] KM: Were you born in New York?

[0:17:24] LF: I was born in Newark, New Jersey, right across the river.

[0:17:26] KM: Right. So, you came and you found her and you got to live with the Jewish family.

[0:17:28] LF: My mother died on a Tuesday. And by Friday I was in Arkansas, a state I'd never really heard of, definitely to a city.

[0:17:34] KM: Why Arkansas?

[0:17:35] LF: Because that's where the Gibsons live. My cousins live there. And that's who came and fetch me. That's why they said, “Come here and stay with us for a few days.” And I never left. So, they adopted me. So, they were in Dermott, Arkansas. 

I love your flags.

[0:17:46] KM: These are your flags. 

[0:17:50] LF: Thank you. 

[0:17:50] KM: Thank you for coming on my show. This is New Jersey, Louisianna, and Arkansas. 

[0:17:54] LF: Oh, I'm going to cry. That means so much to me. 

[0:17:59] KM: You're welcome. 

[0:17:59] LF: Thank you so much. 

[0:18:01] KM: So, if you're listening, I just gave Lisa a desk set for her desk. Little four by six-inch flags on a stand.

[0:18:09] LF: I love it. Thank you. 

[0:18:10] KM: You're welcome.

[0:18:10] LF: Thank for recognizing my Louisiana and Jersey roots. That's what good research does. That's where I suck. I would just get the American flag and forget where they're from.

[0:18:21] TW: Next up on this program where we're thinking and talking about folks who are not from Arkansas but have landed here and have fallen in love with the place. They've all been guests in the past year and a half or two years on Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. And here comes a couple of guys who really do come as a pair. They're both from the Northeast but they're Little Rock legends now, Leslie Singer and Phil Kaplan, the two Jewish guys.

[0:18:44] KM: Though the two men have a lot in common, they haven’t always known each other. Leslie Singer, an ad man and once VP for Fairfield Communities near Heber Springs, Arkansas, and Phil Kaplan, a civil rights attorney in private practice, first meeting was as volunteers at an on-air fundraiser for KUAR radio station. They became fast friends. Finding out they both were born in the Northeast, both moved to Little Rock in the 1970s, and both grew up in the Jewish culture. On-air, their commonalities and dry humor coupled with listener’s curiosity made for great storytelling in Jewish shtick. 

[0:19:26] KM: Talk about how happenstance first meeting at KUAR's fundraiser. Who wants to set the scene for that?

[0:19:32] PK: Well, there is a Yiddish word bashert. It’s fated. Bashert. Can you say bashert?

[0:19:37] KM: Bashert.

[0:19:38] PK: Bashert. Yeah. It's fated. Well, we were obviously fated. See, I had an office on what was then the Main St. Mall, and I’d go out and maybe get a little lunch. Leslie was an inventor and walker. He was walking.

[0:19:56] LS: I was always walking.

[0:19:57] PK: He was always walking, and he was walking on the Main St. Mall. I’d see him on the Main St. Mall, and he was there with Dawn Evans, a now retired architect who is not very funny actually. So I’m sorry I even mentioned his name.

[0:20:16] LS: He makes me laugh.

[0:20:17] PK: So I saw Leslie and this other fellow. We would chitchat occasionally. Then one day, I had been doing the fundraiser with somebody else whose name I now can't recall, and they inserted Leslie – I didn't think I can handle it by myself. So they inserted Leslie into this cramped little room, and it was magic. It was bashert.

[0:20:50] LS: Let me tell you a little more detail about it. So we’re in the room. It’s the fundraiser twice a year.

[0:20:58] KM: For KUAR?

[0:21:00] LS: For KUAR public radio. They do that all week. So every day of the week, they have several other hosts doing the same thing. Those guys basically are women. They'd come in and they basically beg for money, and it was kind of boring.

[0:21:18] PK: It wasn't boring. Kind of. It was exceedingly.

[0:21:22] LS: It was kind of exceedingly boring, and we said, “Let’s not do that. Let's – Why don't we just do this? This was all on the spur of the moment. Why don't we just do a show?” Like you’re a little kid, “Hey! Let’s do a show.” So we said, “Okay. Let’s do a show about being Jewish, and we’ll just call it the Two Jewish Guys, and we will just ad lib our way through it, and we’ll talk about what it's like being Jewish, and our Jewish backgrounds, and Jewish culture, and Jewish jokes, blah, blah, blah.” We did that, and it was pretty big. I mean, people really like that. A lot of people called in. And the deal was, if you had done this in New York, nobody would've cared. But it's not that common to have two guys talking about being Jewish or Judaism.

[0:22:02] PK: We’re aberrations.

[0:22:04] LS: Yeah. So it was lighthearted, and we were making fun of ourselves, and we are making fun of everything. So it clicked. 

[0:22:11] KM: Phil, you grew up in Massachusetts, graduated from Harvard Law, and practiced as a field attorney for the National Labor Relations Board. Was it in St. Louis or Massachusetts? And kind of tell us about that journey.

[0:22:22] PK: Well, I went to Harvard College and went to the University of Michigan Law School, and then I worked for the National Labor Relations Board in St. Louis.

[0:22:30] KM: St. Louis. How’d you go there? How’d you go from Massachusetts to St. Louis?

[0:22:36] PK: It was something called a job.

[0:22:37] KM: Just following the job.

[0:22:39] PK: Following on a job. Yes. Learning a lot about employment and labor law. Then I got an offer to come to work for a firm here that was then known as McMath, Leatherman, Woods, and Youngdahl. Now the McMath Firm, Governor McMath, and then Judge Henry Woods, and a man named Leland Leatherman, and Jim Youngdahl who handled the employment work at that firm. 

[0:23:09] KM: You were affected by the Central High.

[0:23:12] PK: I was in college during the Central High business, and there was a man in Kirkland House where I was, who was from Little Rock. He took a considerable amount of ribbing as a result of the closure and sending troops and all of the whole terrible business.

[0:23:35] KM: Leslie, before you came to live in Arkansas, you were a successful drummer. Tell us about your career. It was successful. What was the name of your band?

[0:23:45] LS: Well, I was in several bands as I was growing up, starting in like maybe junior high school and through high school. But the two bands that sort of took me to places that were the most unusual was a group called The Unluv’d, which was a soul band. This is prior to the bigger band.

[0:24:08] KM: Unlove'd?

[0:24:10] LS: LS: The Unlov’d, L-U-V’D.

[0:24:13] KM: Of course.

[0:24:13] LS: It was the fashion back there in the – This was a soul band, and it was a very good band. We really thought we were going to make it. We had a big manager and a big musical attorney in New York named Warren Troupe, and we had a secret under-the-table partner, which is – Remember payola and all that kind of thing. Well, this wasn’t payola. But there was a guy in New York named Scott Muni who was a major radio DJ. And FM had just started. That's how old this is. Scott Muni was a secret partner with our manager, Paul Mineo. We had these two women who wrote songs for us. Both of whom had had hit records like with Wilson Pickett and other people. This was going to be it, and we just knew it, and it wasn’t, which has never happened.

We played a lot of great clubs. We actually opened once at like a Ms. New York State contest. We opened for James Brown, if you can believe that. This was a good band. We played at the Peppermint Lounge and all that kind of good kind of cool stuff, but we never made it big. But it was almost beside the point, because it's the late ‘60s. You’re in New York. You're in the rock and roll business. It wasn't going to get much better than that for kids our age. All in all a very, very fun musical career, which basically determined the whole pathway of my life because the band got me to Arkansas. The band got me –

[0:25:53] KM: How did you do that?

[0:25:56] LS: Well, we were getting ready to write the second album, and a friend of mine in New York had met a communal group that was living in Arkansas.

[0:26:05] KM: Very popular at the time.

[0:26:07] LS: Yes. He said, “Why don’t you guys come down to Arkansas and live with us for a month or so and write your album down there?” That just sounded like the coolest thing ever. So we did, and we came down, and we wrote the album, and then we went back to New York.

[0:26:28] KM: So you went back to New York?

[0:26:28] LS: I went back to New York but then came back down to Arkansas, because I love –

[0:26:32] KM: Because you fell in love or something?

[0:26:32] LS: Because I liked it here.

[0:26:33] KM: Oh, you just liked it here. You said when you went back to New York you sold shoes.

[0:26:37] LS: Yes. It’s great. So here I am, Mr. big shot musician, at the top of my musical career. I go back to New York. I had already not only been a musician, but I had gone into advertising. I sort of got hired in an ad agency. When I left this communal group after about three years, I got a job with an ad agency.

The woman I was married to at the time, she was from New York also, and we thought we missed it. So we moved back to New York. Well, I couldn't get a job in New York in advertising. No way, because here I am from Little Rock, and it was the recession. The only job I could get was selling women's shoes in Bergdorf Goodman, which is a high-end –

[0:27:20] PK: That high-end.

[0:27:20] LS: High-end 5th Avenue.

[0:27:22] PK: High-end.

[0:27:23] LS: But I was a terrible shoes salesman. I was terrible. But I did sell shoes to Greta Garbo. That's the highlight of my –

[0:27:30] PK: No.

[0:27:30] LS: Yeah. Absolutely. Size 9 Papagallo flat. I’ll never forget it.

[0:27:34] PK: I never knew of that, Leslie. You didn’t tell me.

[0:27:37] LS: You don’t know everything, Phil. You don’t know everything. I got secrets.

[0:27:40] PK: Well, now everybody else knows.

[0:27:42] LS: Everybody knows. So I stayed there nine months, and I wrote to my boss here in Little Rock. I said, “Could I have my job back?” He said, “Absolutely. Come on back. I'll give you a raise. We’ll give you this. We’ll give you that.” So l came back and I've been here now like 45 years.

[0:27:56] TW: What we're doing is looking back at guests who didn't start their lives or careers in Arkansas, but they moved here for one reason or another and have fallen in love with Central Arkansas and Little Rock, Arkansas. The next guest on the program, I'll let Carrie McCoy introduce. 

[0:28:15] KM: My guest today is the Little Rock Arkansas restauranter legend, Mr. Louis Petit. His Arkansas folklore began in 1975 when Jacques and Suzanne Treton – How do you say it, Louis?

[0:28:29] LP: Treton, yes.

[0:28:30] KM: Treton. I’m Arkansas, Treton. But it’s Treton. Decided to bring their European cuisine to Little Rock, Arkansas. Their restaurant was aptly and now famously called Jacque and Suzanne's on the top 30th floor of the First Commercial Bank Building in the Rock, Arkansas. But the Treton’s – Say it again.

[0:28:53] LP: Treton.

[0:28:53] KM: I can’t do it. I'm just going to say like an Arkansan. The Treton’s. Okay. But the Treton’s didn't stay long. After just a few short months, they left. And their restaurant manager, Mr. Paul Bash, took the reins. His first order of business was to hire a European staff. This is when he heard Mr. Louis Petit as Jacques and Suzanne's first maître'd. For 11 years Mr. Bash, Mr. Moore, and Mr. Petite offered the fine dining, elegant surroundings and a view of Little Rock that was unmatched.

If you have ever wondered why, or had out of town guests asks why are there so many good restaurants in Little Rock? This is why. From Jacques and Suzanne's, Mr. Bash and Mr. Petit, expanded their restaurant empire and spawned many local restauranters and local chefs on culinary perfection. Among these restaurants, which this is just a few, was Maison Louis, Cafe Prego, Graffiti’s. And now, Keet and Petit.

It is my pleasure to welcome to the table restaurant royalty and our very own French chef, Mr. Louis Petit.

[0:30:04] LP: Thank you very much you’re very kind.

[0:30:06] KM: Well, hello, friend. Let's start at the beginning. How did you and Paul Bash, two international guys, meet and end up in Little Rock, Arkansas?

[0:30:16] LP: It's a very interesting story really, because I met Paul Bash in Brussels, Belgium in 1972. Paul was in Brussels to learn French and French cuisine for a company, a Swiss company, Hotel Lindy.

[0:30:32] KM: Hotel Lindy?

[0:30:33] LP: The owner of hotel – It was a Hotel Lindy. It’s a Swiss term. And we met in 1972. He was working in the kitchen, I was a maître'd, and we became friends. He was from – He didn't know [inaudible 0:30:46]. I spoke English a little bit so I was able to teach him, direct him, say, “Don't go to this part of town. Stay here." We instantly became friends. And he was there just for one year. I mean, then he returned to America.

And after one year I also left Hotel Lindy and work in Switzerland where I apply for a position, a maître'd in Little Rock, Arkansas, the restaurant Jacques and Suzane. And in doing my interview, Jacques said, “Do you know Paul Bash? I said, “Yes, of course. We are friends.” He called him, he said, “Do you know Louis Petit?” “Yeah, absolutely. Hire him.” And this is how I ended up Northern Little Rock, Arkansas.

And Paul Bash being from Findlay, Ohio, it was foreign for him as it was for me. Jacques hired Paul to run the kitchen. Designed the kitchen even. [inaudible 0:31:37] we had the whole floor. Remember, it was an amazing restaurant. So beautiful. The view, the sunset on Mormon Lake. I mean, we have the bar, the main dinning room, the private room. Yes, it was such an adventure. I think I remember, we met in Geneva together and my dream was to come to America. I was born during World War II. My generation, we are very grateful to America for making us free. 

[0:32:08] KM: Yeah. 

[0:32:11] LP: So the seed was planted when I was a teenager. And my dream was to come to America. And the door opened. I saw this in Little Rock, Arkansas, which was foreign to me. Everyone says, “Why did you come to Little Rock and not to New York, San Francisco like everyone else does?" I didn’t choose. They chose me, so to speak. So the door that opens. To me, I wanted to come to America. 

And Little Rock — I have no prejudice. And I’m so blessed. And I go to New York. I have a French accent. 3 million people like me. In Little Rock, I was unique at the time. It was, “Oh, my God. We love your voice. You talk too fast." And it was instant recognition. So this was amazing part of the success [inaudible 0:32:59].

[0:33:00] KM: You are French royalty to us, because we didn’t have any Frenchman here. And we were like, “Louis Petit is here.” You’re like a celebrity.

[0:33:07] LP: Yeah, exactly. Because we don’t think – I don’t think I’m a celebrity. I don’t think I’m famous. Yeah, I’m just a lucky waiter. That’s the way I look at myself. Because coming to Little Rock in a brand-new, beautiful restaurant, so elegant, on top of the building. I was so happily surprised to be honest. First, the way we were greeted by the – Just to tell you an example. You know, Jacques and Suzanne were on top of the building. When we arrived, the kitchen was not functioning. And we were just putting the rug on the floor, hanging chandelier and everything. So we would go every lunch to the group of all the European. We were about 15 people I think all together. We would go to the Minuteman downstairs, it was a burger place, to have lunch. And we would sit down a big table. And the public would come to us and say, "Welcome to our city." Oh my God. Because just hearing our speaking friends and laughing and having – Everything was new to us. And they were so nice to us. I mean, the girl behind the counter taking our order. I mean, and the public coming to us and say, "Welcome to Arkansas." Never head that — I mean, in Europe they are much more formal. I mean, they're not as open-minded. A little bit much more snob. I mean, that's why to me coming to Little Rock has been the highlight of my life.

[0:34:35] TW: Makes you feel good about our city, doesn't it, to hear all these wonderful stories of people who've come here from other places and fallen in love with it. Next up, Colin MacKnight, who you can hear play every Sunday at Trinity Episcopal Church in Little Rock. 

[0:34:49] KM: Dr. Colin MacKnight is called by composer and conductor Bob Chilcott "a stunning player of exceptional ability." Somehow, and lucky for us, this young man graduated from Juilliard and recipient of a musical awards, he has landed in Arkansas as Director of Music at Trinity Cathedral in downtown Little Rock. Why did you decide to come to Little Rock? 

[0:35:12] CM: Yeah. There's a lot of great stuff about Trinity and also Little Rock. I didn't know as much about Little Rock at the time. Trinity first. Trinity is one of the only parishes in the country to do weekly choral evensongs, which is an afternoon or early evening service that's mostly music. And it's one of the jewels of the Anglican tradition and the Episcopal tradition. But it's also – sadly, in the United States, it's pretty rare these days. 

Whereas in England, English cathedrals will usually do even songs every day of the week with choir and different music every day. But the fact that we get to do it even once a week is really rare and unusual. That's a big part of it. I mean, it's a very supportive congregation. My boss, the dean of the cathedral, Amy Dafler Meaux – 

[0:36:02] GM: Who's been on this podcast?

[0:36:02] CM: Oh, great. She's so wonderfully supportive. And every crazy idea that I have, usually she's like, "All right. Let's try it and see how it works." And the whole community's been that way.

[0:36:17] KM: What you find unexpected about Little Rock that you didn't expect? 

[0:36:22] CM: Interesting. It's a lot hillier than I thought it would be. The first 3 weeks that my now fiancé and I were here, we lived in Kerry's guest house.

[0:36:33] KM: That would be my back guest house.

[0:36:35] CM: Aha. Which is wonderful. And driving from Trinity to the guest house, you go up a lot of hills at the end. And there's one that's like crazy incline. 

[0:36:47] KM: Oh, Cantrell.

[00:21:45] CM: No, no, no, no. Not Cantrell. It's farther up in Hillcrest. Like you've already turned onto – from Cantrell. What is that road off of – 

[0:36:58] GM: Probably Elsa Park Road.

[0:36:59] CM: Elsa, yeah. And then there's some roads up there. And so, I did not think that Little Rock was going to have these like 30° inclines or whatever it is. 

[0:37:07] KM: What would you say you love the most about Little Rock? Not the church, but the city. 

[0:37:11] CM: I think Little Rock really punches above its weight for its cost of living. Because it's got all of these great things that a city of – what? 200,000 probably wouldn't usually have. 

[0:37:24] KM: Like a symphony.

[0:37:25] CM: The symphony, and theaters, and the ballet, and the art museum, and the presidential library, and a church that does weekly choral evensongs. It's got lots of stuff that is really special. 

[0:37:38] TW: That's Dr. Colin MacKnight. And just a minute ago he mentioned Amy Moe, who has been a guest on this program and also is not originally from Little Rock, but has fallen in love with the place now that she's here. Amy is a woman who is making history at the Trinity Episcopal Cathedral in downtown Little Rock. The first female dean in the 140-year history of the cathedral, it's Amy Moe. 

[0:38:05] KM: Let's start at the beginning. You moved a lot as a child and as a young adult. You have lived in South Carolina, North Carolina, New Orleans we just talked about, Austin, Dallas, Kentucky and now Arkansas.

[0:38:20] AM: We finally made it home.

[0:38:21] KM: Why is this home?

[0:38:22] AM: Oh, it feels like home.

[0:38:24] KM: Really?

[0:38:24] AM: Mm-hmm.

[0:38:25] KM: But it's not really.

[0:38:27] AM: We don't have any ties here.

[0:38:28] KM: Where were you born?

[0:38:29] AM: Beaufort, South Carolina.

[0:38:31] KM: And it sounds like you're torturing your children. Were they all born in different states?

[0:38:39] AM: They were all, yes. Our daughter who's 16 is a native – She's the only one in the whole family who's a native New Orleanian in our little core of five. And we've always said that it'll be her obituary that says her name, birth dates, it'll say native New Orleanian. Lived here six months. Lived all over the country after that, but they'll claim her.

[0:39:04] KM: So where are the other children born?

[0:39:06] AM: Jacob was born in Dallas and our youngest was born in Lexington, Kentucky.

[0:39:11] KM: When did you know you wanted to become a priest? Was there a singular event or had you been ruminating on it for a while because you have a BA in liberal arts. I read where you were going to go to school to be a lawyer, I think I read. And then, all of a sudden, now you've got a master's in divinity. Was there something that happened or did you really always kind of think about it?

[0:39:32] AM: I always wanted to be a priest. My closest friends are tired of hearing this story, but –

[0:39:39] KM: Oh, I’ve never heard it.

[0:39:39] AM: Also, I'll tell you. Thank you for being interested. I grew up, I’m an only child and grew up spending my summers with my grandparents. And my paternal grandfather, Grandpa Joe, went to church every Sunday. He was the treasurer of his church. This was back in the day when the treasurer could actually take the money home and make the deposit and then take it to the bank the next day. So my time spent with him in the summer was going to church with him. He was teaching me ministry as a non-ordained person unintentionally, really.

So when I was about eight years old, we went to a Lutheran ordination. I grew up Lutheran. And the minister – I don't know if you've ever been to an ordination, but there's all this really fancy stuff with the clothes and the music. I thought to myself, “I don't know what this guy has going on, but I like it.” And that was the seed, right? That's how God got me. 

So I got to college and told everybody I was getting a liberal arts degree to get me ready to go to seminary. But while I was in college, I really lost my faith. It was really the first time my faith had ever been tested in any significant way, and it wasn't like anything dramatic happened. It was just I stopped going to church. It just didn't really have any meaning. I think what happened was I lost my sense of duty and obligation.

And my closest friend and my oldest friend who was my college roommate, she was applying to go abroad to do a year in Ireland, in Northern Ireland, and she said, “Why don't you just apply? You just come with me and just get a break. Just take a break.” I’m like, “I’m a junior. I’m supposed to graduate next year.” “Who cares?” “Okay.” So I said, “My mom will never let me do it.” I called my mom, my mom said, “If you can pay for it, you can go. That sounds like a good idea.”

So the whole plan was that Martha and I were going to go together. We'd be together. Well, she got placed in Finland. And the next thing I know I was on an airplane. Never traveled other to my grandparents. I never went to camp. No. I’m on an airplane to Belfast, Northern Ireland.

[0:41:51] KM: By yourself.

[0:41:52] AM: By myself. I got off the plane.

[0:41:53] KM: Started praying.

[0:41:54] AM: Well, I got off the plane. I called my dad, I said, “Well, there you go. I did it. Can I come home now?” “Nope.” They wouldn't let me. I didn't come home at Christmas.

[0:42:02] KM: What month is this?

[0:42:04] AM: That would have been August of 1995.

[0:42:11] KM: Who did you stay with?

[0:42:13] AM: We lived in the dorms. So it was a peer exchange program. This is when kids were first studying abroad. You know, now everybody goes abroad. But back there, it was like a really unusual thing. All my scholarships applied, and I was working on my senior thesis. And my senior thesis was on Northern Irish literature. Everything, it just sort of all fell into place. And I ended up in Belfast. Staying in the dorm. The first people to greet us off the airplane was basically like what we would think of now is the Baptist Student Union, except they're all Anglican over there. It was the equivalent of like an Anglican Student Union. And they just sort of adopted me. There were a whole group of us that our floor was sort of the international student floor. So there was a young woman from Finland. There were some Southern Irish, true Irish folks there. Not true Irish, but – Americans, Swedish. The Swedish, they used to dress me up like a Swede and they teach me –

[0:43:12] KM: You look like a Swede.

[0:43:12] AM: And they teach me Swedish sayings. There's a huge Swedish population in Northern Ireland. And we would go to these soccer, football games and they'd teach me how to talk in Swedish and people would come up. It was a lot of fun. They'd paint these Swedish flags on my face. At any rate, these Christian students just really – They would come by once a week.

[0:43:35] KM: And you accidentally met them, because your program was not a religious-based program. 

[0:43:38] AM: No. I was going to a public university. 

[0:43:40] KM: So God came in there and said, “We're going to just sweep her up.”

[0:43:43] AM: I vividly remember, I had been invited to go to a bible study and I said, “Look, I didn't even bring my bible. Why won't you let this go?” And he said, “Oh –” His name was Andrew. He showed up the next week with a bible inscribed. I still have it. It's an NIV, which is the New International Version, but they called it the Northern Ireland Version. And he said, “Now you have a bible. Now just come.”

And it really did. I remember standing in the rain and thinking, “This is the dumbest race I’ve ever run in my life. I’m not going to win,” in terms of trying to run away from God. And so I started going to church with them. And by the time I left, I had fallen back in love with God and it was not a duty obligation. It truly was this – I have this relationship with my creator and He's called me into this ministry. But I don't really want to do that ministry because it's not very sexy, right? I'll just go to law school. That's what I’ll do. I'll go to law school. That's the inner conversation that was happening in my head. That would be interesting. I’d make more money.

[0:44:47] KM: Mm-hmm. For sure.

[0:44:48] AM: Right? My advisor was like, “Well, I thought you were going to go to seminary.” I was like, “I changed my mind. I’m not going to do that.” She's like, “Well, you could become a lawyer for nonprofits.” And I’m thinking, “Well, you don't make a lot of money doing that. But, okay, I'll do that. That feels like a civil service sort of thing to do it,” right?

So when you apply to law school, at least back in the day, 20 years ago, you had to write like 300 words or less why do you want to be a lawyer. I had a sentence. My advisor tells me that would be an interesting thing –

[0:45:18] KM: That's your sentence, because my advisor told me to.

[0:45:20] AM: Right? My advisor was like, “Well, I thought you were going to go to seminary.” I was like, “I changed my mind. I’m not going to do that.” She's like, “Well, you could become a lawyer for nonprofits.” And I’m thinking, “Well, you don't make a lot of money doing that. But, okay, I'll do that. That feels like a civil service sort of thing to do it,” right?

So when you apply to law school, at least back in the day, 20 years ago, you had to write like 300 words or less why do you want to be a lawyer. I had a sentence. My advisor tells me that would be an interesting thing –

[0:45:18] KM: That's your sentence, because my advisor told me to.

[0:45:20] AM: Right. It's probably not going to get you into like Washington, L.A. I mean, just a guess. And I was sitting at our kitchen table. We lived in this very small apartment, and I was sitting at this kitchen table and I just burst into tears because I could not – It was like the first – I’m a liberal arts degree. I can BS my way through anything, right? I can kind of make up my answers or anything.

[0:45:43] KM: She whispered, y'all. In case you're wondering. Just fill in the blank.

[0:45:48] AM: So I couldn't come up. I couldn't fake my way into law school. And it was because I was called to be a minister of the gospel. And so I called my priest and said, “I think I need to go through an ordination process.” And he said, “Well, finally. You've come back.”

[0:46:06] KM: You're a Lutheran priest?

[0:46:06] AM: So we became Episcopalian when I was in junior high.

[0:46:09] KM: Who's we?

[0:46:10] AM: My parents and I.

[0:46:11] KM: Your father that's a scientist?

[0:46:12] AM: Yeah.

[0:46:13] KM: Food scientist.

[0:46:13] AM: Yeah. Oh yeah. He said he left the Lutheran Church because they had called a minister who my dad had decided was racist. He probably was racist. And my dad wasn't going to go to church there. So my dad says he became a Seventh-Day golfer.

[0:46:31] KM: there's a lot of those.

[0:46:32] AM: Right? And my mom started visiting churches. And this was in a little town called Laurinburg, North Carolina. Right outside of Fayetteville. They have a Presbyterian college there. And there's a teeny tiny episcopal church there. Still a mission, it's always been a mission. And the minister there, the very reverend, Timothy Kimbrough. He's now the dean of the cathedral in Nashville. It was his first church. And Timothy is – I mean, in my mind he was six feet tall. I don't know actually how tall he is. But when you're in middle school and there's somebody with a big personality, they're as tall as God. And that was Timothy, big, thick, bushy black hair. It's all gray now, and so engaging. And he has a smile that just lights up a room and he just and you just know he loves you. It's like you’re exactly what he needed that day. And so my mom said, “We're going to go church here.” And that's how we became Episcopalian.

[0:47:31] KM: Dad said, “Okay.”

[0:47:32] AM: Mm-hmm. He did.

[0:47:33] TW: Our next guest on the program is a person who now lives in Maryland, but spent a considerable amount of time here in Little Rock, actually Jacksonville at the Little Rock Air Force Base, another groundbreaking female professional. Colonel Angela Ochoa from the Little Rock Air Force Base. 

[0:47:49] KM: Colonel Angela Ochoa, the 19th Airlift Wing Commander at Little Rock Air Force Base. For the first time in the history of the base, the highest position of command belongs to a woman. Colonel Ochoa says her dreams are coming true with her new role, but that doesn't change anything for her. Entering the Air Force in 2001, after graduating from the US Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colorado, Ochoa became a Command Pilot. Having now flown more than 2800 hours in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Resolute Support, Operation Freedom Centennial. For over two decades, Angela has served her country, seen the world, tested her sensibilities and honed her skills. 

You said this about flying. It's a lot of fun. Getting to fly low levels in Arkansas, see the beautiful scenery, is joyous. And the best part, when I get to go out on the line, prepare for a mission, go execute a mission and then come back and debrief with the team.

[0:48:57] AO: Our family is in a great spot. We knew Little Rock, yeah.

[0:48:59] KM: You were fine with it. How many times have you been promoted and moved your family?

[0:49:02] AO: Well, when I commissioned, I was a second lieutenant, and that was back in 2001. And so promoted five times after that to the rank of colonel. And how many times have I moved my family? I’d have to count them all up. But we've lived in quite a few houses over time. We started out, like I mentioned, in Colorado. My husband and I moved from there to Laughlin Air Force Base for training. We finished our training at Naval Air Station Corpus Christi Texas. And that's where both my husband and I received our pilot wings. Our first operational assignment was out of Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska. And it was awesome.

[0:49:45] KM: I bet.

[0:49:46] AO: And then we moved here to Little Rock for the first time. This is actually our third assignment here at Little Rock Air Force Base.

[0:49:52] KM: Because you started here first.

[0:49:55] AO: Well, because we were assigned here. As our second operational assignment, we were assigned here.

[0:50:00] KM: Where did you first start flying the C-130?

[0:50:03] AO: We came here through training. And that was about a three and a half month training period that we came through on our way up to Alaska. So, yes. We've been here quite a few times.

[0:50:12] KM: So you knew Little Rock.

[0:50:13] AO: We knew Little Rock, yeah.

[0:50:14] KM: You were fine with it.

[0:50:15] AO: Yep. And then we came here. And then after that, we went out to Washington, DC. And I was stationed at the Pentagon and also had an opportunity to go to school at Georgetown and get a master's degree there. And we came back to Little rock. And then from Little Rock, we went up to Scott Air Force Base. And then now we're back at Little Rock again.

[0:50:34] TW: As Colonel Ochoa said in the interview, "In the Air Force, you only stayed places for a couple of three years," and that's what happened to her. She now lives in Maryland. 

Finally, Ned Perme, Channel 7 weatherman and meteorologist for so many years. Didn't start here, but when he arrived, he loved it. 

[0:50:52] KM: You attended college in Alabama, and you have a degree in communications. And you're one of the few people that actually know that went to school and got a degree in something that they actually ended up working in for all of their life.

[0:51:03] NP: Well, the reason, the biggest thing that helped me so much in the business that I went into and eventually into meteorology is knowing how television worked, is knowing behind the scenes. I started out as working in a studio, running camera, and doing lighting, and running audio, and then directing, and directing commercial production, and directing newscasts, and all that.

[0:51:26] KM: During high school? After college?

[0:51:27] NP: It was during college and after college. I did internships.

[0:51:31] KM: But how did you know, going into college that you wanted to work in communications?

[0:51:35] NP: At first I didn't. When I first went in, I thought I wanted to be a lawyer.

[0:51:41] KM: What?

[0:51:42] NP: Well, it's because my father was a lawyer, my grandfather was a lawyer, my uncles were lawyers. There's lawyers in my family. When you grow up, they look at you like, “Well, you're probably going to want to be a lawyer.” Once I started in school, I started taking some of the pre-law prerequisites and I've quickly found out that I was not the least bit interested in it. Then I just fell into a few courses in broadcasting. From that, I just fell in love with that whole thing and knew right away that that's what I wanted to go into.

[0:52:21] KM: How did you end up in Alabama?

[0:52:24] NP: I went to a small Jesuit school in Mobile, and at the time had about 900 students in the whole thing. But I loved it. I was 50 minutes from the beach, which I love that even more. I just stayed down there and started my career down there at WALA-TV. What happened was some of the people from channel 7 television here, including, I believe, Bob Steele, which was the assistant news director at the time, he would travel with his family down to Pensacola, or Fort Walton Beach and turn on the local news and watch me doing the weather out live. Apparently, he liked what he saw and they called and asked me if I would be interested in coming to Little Rock, Arkansas. And I went, "Okay. I think I'll look at it." And I came here, and very simply, I just loved the place.

[0:53:20] KM: Really? What did you love about it?

[0:53:21] NP: Yeah, I really did. It was just a bigger city than I thought it was going to be. And it just had beautiful symphony orchestra and it had the Arkansas Ballet and it just – not that I'm crazy about that stuff, but I liked the fact that this was a sophisticated city. I didn't realize it. Many people don't. Many people think it's backwards, I hate to say that. I loved what it looked like. I loved the television station. I could tell that they really wanted me. 

[0:53:57] TW: Guests from the past year or so that have been on Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy who may not have started in Arkansas, but once they got here, they knew it was home. Fun program. 

Happy New Year, everybody. And thank you for listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. 

[OUTRO]

[0:54:12] GM: You've been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. All interviews are recorded and posted the following week. Kerry's goal? To help you live the American dream. 

[END]